Tait Fletcher: Boy, welcome. Well you guys just missed the first ten minutes of a fantastic conversation. I'm just here; I'm at the Access MMA and we're at the new academy and I didn't double hit my thing and I needed to. I'm here with Greg Jackson. Now we're laughing at my flaws here but—
Greg Jackson: No flaws at all. I'll do a quick recap.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: John Datson and Donald Soroni are the safest individuals in the world.
Tait: That's true.
Greg: They've just finished helping old ladies cross the street for like two hours and doing nothing at all dangerous.
Tait: Nothing dangerous or death-defying.
Greg: You missed that.
Tait: There was that and then basically some background on Greg. Greg has a little bit of a cold that he got from an infant because he, by his own description, is not as powerful as an infant.
Greg: This is true.
Tait: That's mature to four months of age at this point.
Greg: My little brother's infant who lives in Nashville and we're going to blame it on the kid because he can't defend himself.
Tait: Then also, little known fact that out of a plethora of champions of the Jackson family in the wrestling realm, Greg was a never formal wrestler in that regard.
Greg: That's true. My little brother was a state champion here. My father was a state champion; uncle was a D2 national champion. I have a lot of wrestlers but I was too busy being a very dumb kid to wrestle.
Tait: Then my question is I guess, is still like as far as being a real originator and kind of like the primary coach that everybody knew about and laid the foundation of not only as a road, really creating the pathway, like forging a pathway that didn't exist before. It's like this untraveled road to get guys into the UFC or in the Pride or in the King of the Cage or something. How do you that? Not only that but being a coach that's been mimicked by other coaches as far as being a strategist and really having game plans to get them. I think there's anybody that does that to a degree that you do.
Greg: Yes, I guess I always wanted to approach things intelligently, you know what I mean? I wanted to be good at my job and I guess that's what the job was. I've always been kind of inclined to think about things I guess. I don't know how to say this exactly but I was raised in a very intellectual household. My father, Jim Dudley who's kind of like my second dad; these are my mentors. These guys really pushed me to my intellectual boundaries and gave a lot of new information. My mother's the same way; she's huge in the arts and music.
Tait: Mr. Dudley is a professor, right?
Greg: Right; at the University of New Mexico. He teaches Math there.
Tait: Okay.
Greg: He's a great, great man. Bill Simmer was also a former professor there should also be mentioned. He was a statistician there and he also has had a big influence. As a matter of fact, getting into this whole synchronization thing and it's because of him, he's got me into this synchronization path, now, this science of synchronicity which is really cool.
Tait: Explain that a little bit.
Greg: Well, there's this guy called Strogatz who has a book out called Sync and it's about kind of how both biological and non-biological systems will naturally synchronize together, right? So if there's any kind of form of communication, (I'm about halfway through the book at the moment). If there's any form of communication, things will start synchronizing together and the stuff that he's uses is like these fireflies in Thailand that all blink at the exact same time.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Thousands and thousands of them; when it shouldn't be happening, they should be off and on and you know— [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —changing patterns but they synchronize. It's probably how life organizes and how a lot of stuff— [crosstalk]
Tait: Did you say biological and mechanical things?
Greg: Right, yes. Non-biological like pendulums and stuff, they communicate will start synchronizing together and if they can—[crosstalk]
Tait: Wow.
Greg: —if the vibrations go, yes, it's kind of crazy. It has to be in that way because how does nature organize, right, because if it's just thermodynamics, if everything degrades then how do things ever get created?
Tait: Right. That's the amazing thing, too, when you look at instincts and like what you're kind of talking about as a primary instinct like what makes frog jump off the lily pad the minute the hawk starts to come down,
Greg: Right.
Tait: Before the hawk thinks it or all the fish turn in the pool at the same time.
Greg: Right, that's it. Yes, exactly. Those synchronizations are important but it's also your systems like how you, I mean your heart is a pacemaker and how all your internal organs work on the same rhythm together and your sleep cycles, your circadian rhythm, there's so much to it. It's really an incredible field.
Tait: I think there was a thing in biology class where they have two petridishes. They had heart cells and they're beating at different patterns and the closer they got them together, they joined— [crosstalk]
Greg: They communicate. Yes, exactly. That's definitely it. What I'm looking for is that pattern between two people that said two kind of oscillating systems there is, because that's what fighting is. It's finding that rhythm and that pace. How does that happen? Why does it happen in our brains? That's what I'm after right now.
Tait: Do you think it can happen in that short of time, like I mean in the course of the fight, per se?
Greg: Yes, absolutely. When you find the rhythm of something and you really figure out your opponent's timing, your fight is going to go extremely well.
Tait: I mean, because what I've always thought and talking to you and learning from you had been two primary things you know. Scrape and I were just talking and he'd brought it up and he said, "That's some Genghis shit," I'm like, "Absolutely, man." I was talking about you know thresholds of, and not just pain or anything like that, but thresholds of like, here's where somebody's quick button is.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Making your quick button unreachable.
Greg: Impossible to find.
Tait: Right.
Greg: You know what I mean?
Tait: That was one thing but then the other aspect of how do [inaudible] like in poet like, everybody's got their rhythm. I don't know I've talked a lot now. I used Diego as my example and I think he's a fantastic example just because he's a very uncommon human, like that's, I mean he might think you know some different people but Diego sent you as a different kind of dude.
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: One of the ways that is so different is like, I've seen guys that I thought out-skilled him in maybe all three disciplines, so strike in, wrestling and jujitsu. Then I see him just smash.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: That's the thing, I think a couple of things about his belief, is one and that he doesn't let a rhythm happen.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's like, you'd better be able to keep up with him and if you can't, I don't care how good you are; your game will never come to pass.
Greg: Right. If you can't control his rhythm then you're going to have a really hard time.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Because his rhythm is a very high pace rhythm.
Tait: Right. So how does that differ from the idea you're talking about-- You're still talking about interrupting somebody's rhythm then?
Greg: I'm actually finding to acquiring it. How does it even get acquired because what you're doing is you're trying to find a rhythm? So somebody like Diego, if you've got a real high-paced cardio machine like you know, you can a person can be then keeping up with him might be a possibility but if you're able to be strong enough and hold him down and shut down that movement and lock it down, your rhythm is now taking over the fight. He can't do his rhythm anymore; you're making him slow down. You're slowing techniques to slow him down. How do you find in a stand up fight? It's easier in grappling I think. You should really get a feel for people.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Stand-up fights, a rhythm is always changing your stuff but you can feel when the people are stepping wrong, stepping left, stepping right, moving forward, movign back, when they're moving, when they're going to come, when they're going to leave, you can really get a sense of when and where they're moving and then you can put your shots in accordingly. It's not just for that kind of fighting. It's shooting, it's small unit versus small unit tactics stuff, so there's a lot to it.
Tait: It was just talking about that in a book about [crosstalk]
Greg: No, none of this is—[crosstalk]
Tait: About military maneuvers.
Greg: No, not at all. This is all just science, street science stuff. I'm bringing you into the combat realm.
Tait: Right. Yes, that's— When you talk about the striking rhythm like, your [soak you] guys that have that I think, that are like that.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: With grappling I was always thinking about it and people are like, "Well, you know, what's the difference between the black belt and blue belt?" and I always hear all these kinds of stuff. I was thinking, "You have a field. I have a better field."
Greg: Right.
Tait: My body's sensibility is such that you're never be able to out-skill that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You have to just have mat time after mat time. But then, that being said, there are some guys that come in and they have it right away.
Greg: They pick it up quick, yes.
Tait: The lapse time I think would be American wrestler you see that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Those guys are so savvy but they got a lot of mat time also.
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: Well, to extract like that and put it on the strike team, not only like 360-degree movement, you got 720-degree movement because you have both bodies but then you really have every other dimension, too, so you have an infinity of like how to get somebody's feel. That's why it looks like Anderson Silver's in the matrix.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's what I think. I don't know.
Greg: Exactly. The way you process his emotions, exactly right. He gets a range of field for your timing you notice he has hard fights when you can't do that. He'll get, everybody's, "Oh, he's boring. He's this and that."
Tait: Right.
Greg: When he has hard fights it's because he's not processing emotions correctly. He's not able to finally get that click. When he can you get fights where he fought Forest where he was just able an inch at a time and get it.
Tait: Now, with all that, too, (Sorry about that. My phone is...)
Greg: No worries.
Tait: (that large). What do you think about— You know people say when they see guys they really like and there are guys I've had the pleasure to be able to train with and whatever and there's an off night or something and you hear that a lot, off nights or whatever but, it's a real thing like I don't know, I don't process as truthfully as you nearly, but I'm like, you know, on different days there are different fighters and that's why any fighter on any day can, I mean, it's a dangerous guy.
Greg: Absolutely.
Tait: Because you don't know who's walking and I mean, you've seen like Cowgirl get lured in a fight that he shouldn't be in when he's way better than the dude in all these other realms. It's like, you just don't know who's coming. Maybe there's a savage coming in and then maybe he's more reserved some days.
Greg: Right. That's why consistency I think is very hard for a fighter. If you notice the real champions that stay there are that, they're consistent.
Tait: Right.
Greg: They can consistently show up as the same guy over and over again. Ever if they're squeak it out their consistency is performing at that level. They've learned how to flip their switch and do right thing at the right time.
Tait: What do you as the coach? Try and get the guys out and to beat, I mean, and when do you start noticing that, in the camp or just when you meet the athlete, like when you meet Jones when he comes in the first time. You kind of see what they're on this is you know after he did that stuff in Boner and then you go, "Okay, here's the hurdles as I've got as the coach to look at," or "How do I keep them consistently dialed in?"
Greg: Right, well, a lot of that comes from the fight as the way they compete. Some people compete differently. As long as you have a guy that's mentally, it's all mental, as long as you can mentally deal with the pressure, mentally come in and do the same thing over and over, that's what really matters. You can show them technical stuff but that's going to keep them consistent. You can show somebody very, very technical but they fold under pressure, they do these things. It's just finding the right formula.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Some people just lock into it. Some people it takes a long time for them to actually figure out the right formula. It can be, "Listen, I'm surrounding myself with negative people. Before the fight everybody is like this, that and the other thing," and just puts you in the wrong frame of mind. Once you find the formula that's successful, you just got to stick with it. Even if it's not every single time, let's say it's 98% of the time, that's important. If the formula isn't working you've got to change it. It's everything leading up to the fight that you do. That's what you have to analyze.
Tait: As crazy for me to think, my mind just wanders when you're saying that because I know, I think about you know, like Isaac Valleyflag and him really just turning that corner, like the last couple of years has just been like you know, for me it's just like really encouraging and like it just brings you a lot of joy you know. When you see a guy come into his own and go, not getting big brother by anybody but "I'm here. I've put the work in. Fuck you. I'm going to smash you."
Greg: Right.
Tait: You know, I mean it's rad. Not that Isaac's like that. He's the sweetest guy out there but you know what I mean?
Greg: I know exactly what you mean.
Tait: Then I think he's a head case, too. When I think about all the different beautiful sensitive creatures that walk through your gym.
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: Then you keeping, not that it's even your responsibility but you've got a real stake in because of your desire to see them perform well.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Keeping all these fucking animals dialed in.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: How the fuck do you go about that and not go crazy?
Greg: That's a very good question. Part of it is the joy of seeing that; turning the corner you know. Cub Swanson and Isaac Valleyflag both really... You see, okay, here is the formula [crosstalk]
Tait: And they're boyfriends.
Greg: They are.
Tait: Strangely enough.
Greg: They love each other.
Tait: Synchronicity.
Greg: Exactly. There you go. Everybody's got to have a pair; got to get somebody paired together. I think that that's part of it. Even more than to see them succeed which is what they want, I just like to see him grow. To see him come in is one thing and you know grow into this other thing is just phenomenal because it really is, I mean there's something to it in our society as Americans I think we lose a little bit of the fire changing youth. The fire is important.
Tait: Right.
Greg: These obstacles are important because everybody wants to be equal; which is great.
Tait: Right.
Greg: But you have to go through, when you through these processes, you're in a different place than they are. That's just the way it is.
Tait: You're better than they are.
Greg: Now, do you say you're better? [laughing]
Tait: Yes, bullshit. You're fucking better. The warrior class of perfect. I mean if you're not, I'm sorry but we're both better than you.
Greg: Because there are people that are certainly smarter than the warrior class.
Tait: That's true.
Greg: Do you know what I mean?
Tait: That's different, though.
Greg: Right.
Tait: What you say is so true. You've gone through these fires that [crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: —nobody, and you've gone through them not only in the gym but that, nobody, your family, loved ones—[crosstalk]
Greg: Right. Nobody understands that.
Tait: Nobody understands that. The guy that's never dieted, he doesn't understand while he's sitting waiting for his Big Mac.
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: You've done things that are unattainable to the mind even for other people if they haven't been there.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Remember Joey Almos, he got it up to test that the mountain one day. He's tough because we're doing body carriers up switch batch or something while he's running the stairs. He said, "Listen, if you guys aren't fucking one of the six guys that are running the stairs, how about just keep it to yourselves? I know blah-blah-blah but unless you're doing this I don't want to hear any git like that as an athlete." If you're not in this fire right now with me, I don't want to hear it.
Greg: Right. That I think, as long as it's going in a growth way because it can get negative, too. You can get in that fire then it can just burn you up and you get bitter and angry or whatever, do you know people like that, but as long as somebody's guiding you that's been there, that's guiding you through to bring you to a better place, I think that's very important. It is, it makes you in this different place. It gets hard to relate to people like you're saying, who haven't been there. That goes for everybody, soldiers; a lot of people go through that.
Tait: Sure, sure. That's true.
Greg: Even at different levels of soldiers, you know. The guy that sits in the Air Force, in doing mechanic stuff in Afghanistan, still hasn't experienced that we'll never have but he's not the same as the marine that's walking down the neighborhood.
Tait: Right.
Greg: He's not the same as spec ops guy who's in every three months, just going crazy. Everybody has his different experiences. I think the important thing with all of them is as long as they're growing experiences, as long as you're getting something out of them, that's the real key.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: The martial arts to me, and I guess that's my motivation, is just take that process and make you a better person. I'm not saying you're going to be a saint, right? You might do whatever you're going to do but at least it should give you some wisdom. The process should give you some wisdom.
Tait: Yes. It's funny. From little John's here later and there are two things, I remember, once you told me, I was like, "God, I just don't know how long we'd keep doing this or this or that," you go, "Are you having fun training? Because if you're not having fun training anymore, Tait, that's the time when you just stop for a while and reassess what you're doing because I'm here to have fun in this life." It put it in such a simple way that was so powerful and so right on and then I remember looking at little John's face every day whether it was, like in wrestling practice or something like that, everyday he's dying. That guy, he's got a smile on his face, ear to ear, anytime you catch him. If you can catch without a smile on his face, you've met him at a moment that I've never seen. I just thought we're all, like, whatever you're doing have fun doing it.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's what I— If you're delivering mail, if you're like— It just seems like the only important thing that's perhaps those positive vibes and then when you go back that synchronicity and talking about that, if the whole world is vibrating at 480 megahertz or whatever they say it's vibrating at, and you're ought to sync with that, it's like, it behooves you to be in appreciation so that you can achieve those levels and you can work towards your own greatness which shall spread to everything.
Greg: Exactly and that's why setting a culture in your gym is so important because you have to have that synchronicity. If you come in the gym and everybody's negative and bad mouthing everything all the time then that's what you're going to be.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Because you are who you surround yourself with. We're a bunch of goofballs; you know that better than anybody.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: We have a great time. Everybody's laughing all the time. We're not stabbing each other in the back. It's a positive place. You can leave money; it'll still be there when you get back.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That kind of place is important because that vibe and that culture is real and important. If you're going to make a warrior culture then makes it to mean something and make it that that's important.
Tait: I think that all the guys that have ever had the pleasure working with you leave with anyway, if they got a head in there, brain in their heads at least, is that, which sometimes not so much—
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: —but even I got the message of these are guys that you can count on.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: That's the thing. Everybody ask me all the time wherever I go, they go, "God, that's real hotbed out there in that Albuquerque. What is that about all those guys that are so tough down there?" I go, "All guys come from a lot of other places." I was thinking back and I was like, "But the toughest guys are right here, you know."
Greg: Yes.
Tait: There's not a lot else to do is one thing.
Greg: [laughter] Yes.
Tait: You get proud of your dirt, you know what I mean? This is where I'm from. This is it and I'm going to protect this.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then you get, there's a fidelity that exists in mixed martial arts like there's a fidelity and a consciousness that I don't, that it's hard I think, that I don't look down on other people for not having I feel sorry for them that they don't have that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: —because it's been such an important aspect of my life in that way.
Greg: Right, right. I mean, I guess, it's important that everybody have their own thing in their field.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: You know what I mean? If you're in a warrior class, then yes, those are the things that you should find important. What you're talking about you should find important. Otherwise, it's gets negative real quick because warriors have a lot of power.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: If you're not going to have some kind of positivity to it, if you're not going to be a laid back human, then you probably shouldn't be a warrior. You can get into merchants. There are plenty of jerk CEOs all over the place.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: Have fun with that.
Tait: [inaudible]
Greg: Go have fun with that. If you're going to be a warrior, I'm not talking about, "I'll make calls and I run this town," I mean, the actual like, are-we-in-a-jungle-going-to-fight-each-other warrior and yes, be a good human because that's the bottom line, right, because we can take anything [crosstalk]
Tait: I think that's why I think, I don't know. That's why a lot of people go to— There are certainly the guys that are just angry dudes, that are like, "I just want to punch somebody," and they get in the gym and there's that but I think moreover there is not that. I think moreover there are guys trying to find deeper aspects of themselves; that are going in there to test themselves in this very special and unique way. They appreciate their fellows that allow them to have that kind of energetic connection with another human, to operate at that kind of high level and intensity with, you know.
Greg: What's really cool is when you get those angry guys that just want to smash the world [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —and you can flip those guys around, channel that stuff, get them over it and see that person that would have been doing damage to the world—
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —now doing something positive; helping people out, even if he's a self-centered—[crosstalk]
Tait: How many guys have you had like that, do you think?
Greg: I can't even count.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Yes, I mean, it's been 20-some years since I've been doing it but a lot of them and it's good.
Tait: How about favorite athletes you woke up? Can you say names?
Greg: No, because as soon as I get to the gym— [crosstalk]
Tait: I know.
Greg: —I'll be like, "I love so and so than eight other dudes."
Tait: It's so crazy.
Greg: Then it's an impossible question; there are so many.
Tait: No, I mean there's [crosstalk]
Greg: It sounds stupid and "Oh, you're so political, Greg," but I really don't have like a favorite. There's not one person that I'm like— [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: "This is the guy."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It's like your kids, man. Like, you can't— [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: You can't say, unless you're an ass, you can't be like, "I love Mark."
Tait: Sure.
Greg: "But Frank's an ass."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I would never—[crosstalk]
Tait: Frank, you better behave. [crosstalk]
Greg G: Right. Yes. You know what I mean?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: "Well, I wonder why he's like that."
Tait: Even regardless, you know I want well paintball and for Cowboy's birthday a while back and I was going out from there and I was like, there was Keith and Isaac and Cowboy and Leonard and all that and it brought back memories of Rassad when he was here, too. I've want to real fighting gentlemen like, that smile, that kind of like all of that stuff you know, and thinking of kids and like, and all the water that's gone by and all that and just the kind of class and aplomb that everything got handled in. I think, I mean, I've a lot of admiration for you and that hard spot because it is a hard spot. It was like, at that time I was just leaving the gym and Keith's there and John's just coming in the gym and Jesus, man that was like growing pains. It's like it was the first time that anybody had to really look at stuff, issues like that about, we're going to have, we've got four main light heavies and they're all contenders or whatever. With the lightweights it's the same thing. You know you've never had to sit down a president before. That was it you know. Seeing that done with love and growth and the kindness and concern for other people then huge.
Greg: Yes, you know it was a very trying time and you're either taking negatives from that or positives from that.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It's one of those things that you have to, I mean you have to make decision; you got to take a hard look at what you've done.
Tait: Right.
Greg: You can't get through this life without hurting somebody and just try to do—[crosstalk]
Tait: Sure:
Greg: —as little as that as possible that's my thing.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Yes, it was a tough spot and we came out stronger for it. Like when George fought Carlos.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: No problems with anybody; everything was normal. Good for what he knew what to expect. That's the real thing. I say this often; one of the best fighting quotes ever came from the Batman movie with Joe Kerr after the Jack Nicholson one who I love.
Tait: Right. The one with Heath Ledger.
Greg: Yes, the Heath Ledger one?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: He gave one of the best speeches about fighting ever to the two-faced guy in the hospital room. He said, "No matter how crazy the plan is, as long as it's a plan, nobody panics."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: "It's when there's no plan that everybody loses their mind."
Tait: Great.
Greg: That's it. I mean, as long as you have a plan, that's why you game plan and fights for so many things and you get people mentally right.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: As long as there's a plan, as long as you're going to say, "Listen, in this situation you're going to suffer so get ready. You're going to have stuff crashing into you; get ready. Here's what's going to happen; get ready." As long as you can give a person that [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: –and they're warrior they can be like, "Okay, this is what I expect."
Tait: It's not outside the norm.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's all within the realm of reason.
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: This is going to happen.
Greg: That's why you break people down so much like on your mountain runs and stuff. I have to get people to where you're just your core exposed and then make that normal.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: In the fire in your course gets exposed and you're like, "Oh, okay. It's none..." Again, I did this last week; there's not panic because everything is in that plan.
Tait: There's another one I love is that you got to become comfortable where other men are uncomfortable.
Greg: That’s it.
Tait: If you can live in the fire and that's your home then other guys are going to get burned and you're going to smile.
Greg: Exactly. That mentality I think is one of the reasons that we're so successful.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Just understanding that panic is your enemy so what you do is you do everything you can. You make sure you're in physical shape, whatever you can do to avoid panic. Then deep at your core, when you understand, okay, panic is what I'm trying to avoid, when situations arise outside of fighting [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —or whenever it should have, like how many people have come to me and said, "Oh my God, this happened or that happened," and I'm always you know, "Okay," [crosstalk]
Tait: We're having the new generation, the sky is always falling.
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: The banks are about to take everything [crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: XYZ is always the worst time or the best time.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: I mean, on people's emotional construct at that moment.
Greg: You've got it.
Tait: It's never any different. It's not like we got to chase down pigs to eat tonight.
Greg: RIght. [laughing]
Tait: We're going to be fine.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Of course you're sort to eat on, it's like, and it’s always been something.
Greg: Right. Exactly. There's that real popular Keep Calm and Carry On thing.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I think it's Churchill's.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I think there's something to that. I mean, it's a warrior mentality.
Tait: Yes. What do you think about when the... I've just struck me like, most guys came out and they find the same way. What I'm talking about is there are slow starters and there are guys that are hyper-aggressive right away, right?
Greg: Right.
Tait: Some guys, how many times have you heard it, "Until I get punched, I'm not going to be a fighter."
Greg: Right.
Tait: Sometimes you only get that one time then you're asleep.
Greg: Right.
Tait: There's that as the problem What do you think about the benefits, the cost deficit of check and can you change a fighter from a slow starter into a savage aggressive fighter?
Greg: You can but it has to come, it's kind of like dealing with an addict. The choice has to come from them. You can try to give everything you can to them [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —to guide them on that path but ultimately it's up to the fighter.
Tait: Is there a better way? One’s better than the other?
Greg: Well, no. It depends on what's more effective. To me, it's about effectiveness. If you're an effective slow starter— [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —but you always win, why would you change?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: If you feel [crosstalk]
Tait: Like George is pretty measured all the time.
Greg: RIght, yes. He stays at a very good, he finds his rhythm and he stays [crosstalk]
Tait: He fights when he's sober, not so much.
Greg: Exactly. Whatever works for you, stick with it.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: If it doesn't work for it then you need to change it. What's an admirable to be as a fighter is when you're able to change it? Example everybody knows Ali. Ali had two different Alis; he had the early style of always dancing and then he had the grinding style where he absorbs punishment, he would get them into these later rounds, Ali's alley they would follow to him just to be able to break the guy down. Seeing a fighter that can redefine themselves like that [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —is very impressive but that's what you need to do.
Tait: There you were talking about eras, though.
Greg: Right.
Tait: We're not talking about fight to fight. You're talking about the man became different [crosstalk]
Greg: Right after his play off.
Tait: —when he found out he could take a beating and started that as a strategy but I guess more what I'm talking about is like you take a guy, you know like Isaac and you go, "Okay, he's going to stay covered up. He's going to get into a little bit of a scrap. Maybe he's going to lose the first half or the first round and then he's going to turn on and get into his groove and feel it."
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then okay well the next fight, what we want to do is run and come out and run attack him hard right away and then the next slow again like that kind of a game plan.
Greg: Oh, yes. You could do that game plan for sure.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: If your game plan is, "Okay, you always need to be right on his face," and that's where you start training.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Yes, it depends. Now there is utility, right; your fighter's preferences.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Sometimes the two would not mesh. Like, if this guy is always going to be a fast fighter [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —or slow starter it can be hard to try to get them to do something else. You have to figure what works in their construct to be most effective.
Tait: Yes, because they do tend to become that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It seems that to me anyway. Their dogma becomes strong as this is how he is.
Greg: Right, right, right. It can be challenging but I mean, that's why I love my job.
Tait: What do you think about the matrix? What I mean is like what I see more, that's the [?] as fast as the guy could run is 1938 or whatever, when run in front of Hitler.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then, four years later, the guy was faster.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Four years later he got— Then what the, I don't know, like in stunt world I see a lot of guys that are trickers and stuff, they do crazy matrix type shit.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Like 580's.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Standing, looks like their legs are on springs, you know.
Greg: Right.
Tait: They see this stuff in the internet and they mimic it. I just start thinking about other stuff and it makes me go crazy. Like when Drones first came into the gym and I see him do that stuff and then like his throws are great.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: You don't see aerial shows like that where there's another huge man in the air over his head.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then the strike in was really exquisite like elbows, knee, and I go, "Hey, where'd you learn your strike?" because he's in the woods in the upstate New York and so great wrestling, awesome guys I know, they go to Holland or to San Francisco.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You guys are traveling all over to do this stuff.
Greg: Yes, right.
Tait: He goes, "Youtube." I was like, "You son of a bitch. How dare you." He's like that and I believe and then, so this internet thing that's new to us—
Greg: Right.
Tait: —is like changing the world in a fast, in such way, It expedited the learning curve for everybody. Now you see Pedas [?] doing stuff, like Johnny Dobson moves like that.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: You see these few guys are starting to echo and move like it's the actual kung fu movie. Stuff that we thought was ridiculous as grinders like, "Leg kick, right over head," [crosstalk]
Greg: Yes.
Tait: —you know all this stuff and now there are a lot of different fancy stuff. You thought that well, that's just silly movie stuff. Now you're seeing in the UFC.
Greg: Right. Well, there are two very important points to that. The first is, we're building on what people got in the past. When you see somebody let's say a motorcycle guy can do a flip, you know it can be done then you start building. Everybody figures out how you do it and then you start building that up. You're in this constant process building. The second thing you've touched on is what has half ways the paradigm shift for martial arts. I mean this is the reason. The argument always goes, are we on the most cutting edge for human combat right now?
Tait: Right.
Greg: Is this time in human history the most, and a lot of people bring up pain craze because pain craze was around forever.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: They certainly did do excellent things but pain craze always limited to grease and whoever they pull in.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: There are more people alive right now than there were all throughout history. We have more people living right now than the entire.
Tait: In this moment in time.
Greg: Right, in this moment in time. You can stack them all up and there's still not going to be enough.
Tait: Right.
Greg: What you have is the aggregate. You have tons of people all over doing what we're doing all over the world and we can access it. We can access all of it. That has never been done before so the internet has never been done, videos have never been done. Airplanes have never been done.
Tait: Right.
Greg: The world is now a small place so there's no doubt we're at the most exciting time to be alive as far as a human and as far as a martial artist. I'm not just talking about hand to hand. Weapons, guns, the whole nine yards, we're doing this everywhere. There is this learning curve and this access information we've never had before and new utility. It's very, very cool to be a part of this.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It's very cool to be pushing on the cutting edge of it. It's also cool to look back and see how far we've come in such a short time. It's amazing.
Tait: Yes, it is. I guess it goes back to my Diego Sanchez thing or John [inaudible] for saying that is that it's belief and people see it. First they believe it; those are the real visionaries, right? They believe without seeing. They're like, "Yes, I can do a double back flip."
Greg: Right.
Tait: They've never seen or heard about it. They just wanted to [crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's the different dude. Then there are people that see it on and they go, "I can do it," like in a movie like the Anderson Sue, I think there's Tony Freakland where he does like an upper cut elbow—
Greg: Yes.
Tait: —and Kaid Drage or something in England, right? He's like, "Yes, I saw it on a movie a month before and so I just practiced it into a pillow with my wife then I knocked him out with it." That's like an amazing athlete right there.
Greg: Well, that's the only thing is, these super athletes can do that.
Tait: Right.
Greg: I mean, I'd be hard damn pressed to jump off the wall, back flip and hit somebody. That would be hard.
Tait: You could do it but I wouldn't.
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: Let's be honest. That stuff when you talked about technology and all that stuff and you talked about being an American and what that means and all that stuff, what are your thoughts about that, about when you have through, you're a traveling man and your personal rights are completely violated every time you fly. They dehumanize you, taking your shoes out. What are your thoughts about all that? Where we are going as far as that?
Greg: You know I'm pretty laid back about it. I understand that everything is in balance. If that's going to keep my plane from blowing up, actually if you could show me, now of course there are arguments yes and no.
Tait: [inaudible]
Greg: Right.
Tait: You don't use yourself on off a gas pump. You go back.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Everyone's to the gas pump blow up because of a bomb.
Greg: Right. I guess, a lot of times, it's the plan. You know what I mean? As long as everybody's okay with the plan, like we are going to do some kind of security so that hopefully we catch somebody with a big giant knife.
Tait: Right. It seems like pretend to me.
Greg: You know I think in a way it is but we have to do something like that's the thing. It's like, are you just going to let dudes walk on to the plane like no problem? [crosstalk]
Tait: [inaudible crosstalk] I was thinking something functional like— What I think it's just a money-grab and I think somebody's retarded uncle is like, "Hey, my son Jimmy needs a job so we're going to make Homeland Security and he is going to put up these machines that we don't know what they're doing. We're going to make people walk through and pretend that we know what we're doing. In the meantime a dude suffering from diabetes because he's 480 pounds is patting down some old lady in a wheelchair. That's the reality at— [crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: —what America is right now.
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: When you can have a bad motherfucker that's a special ops dude with a .45 sitting on a plane just watching people. Nobody's going to take, you know what I mean? There is that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: There's what we do and those that aren't [crosstalk]
Greg: Right, well, yes. I mean, in order to debate that I would have to get the numbers.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I would have to see what, where are we putting our money? Where is it allocated?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Where is this? Where is that? So that I could—
Tait: You don't worry about your interior freedoms in America being assuage in some way?
Greg: Not really because it's— I mean I would worry if it gets bad I guess.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Like if they're knocking up—[crosstalk]
Tait: It's bad. Boston's bad. Three people is all that died; just three.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: We show more of that all the time.
Greg: No, no.
Tait: There are kids and everybody.
Greg: It's true.
Tait: Three people died and they strip people naked all in their homes, illegal search and seizures, military force in the streets.
Greg: Right. If that in fact happened then people need to answer for that because you can't do that.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It can't be done. There's that old saying, is it Franklin that said, "Those people who give up their liberty over their dog deserve [crosstalk]
Tait: [inaudible crosstalk]
Greg: Yes, exactly. Anyway, I'm for that but I also know that the realities of the situations are hardly ever what we think they are.
Tait: It's true.
Greg: Being on the ground running is kind of like the guys that sit back that say, "Well, if I was in that fight I would just punch him in the face."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: When you've got that gun and there's that guy and you don't know where he is and he is going to kill you— [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —and you can be doing some squirrely stuff [crosstalk]
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —because you know what, you've got a wife and kid to come home to and so do all the people, the warriors that are with you.
Tait: True story.
Greg: I mean where do you draw that line? Where do you let a guy— You know there has to be consequences when you cross that line.
Tait: Certainly.
Greg: At the same time, like I know a lot of those guys that are chasing those guys and they are some of the best people I've ever met in my life.
Tait: Yes, absolutely. I'm not about not pumping that due full of bullets.
Greg: Right.
Tait: What I am saying is that— [crosstalk]
Greg: You can't just go around.
Tait: —once you stripped his rights, Miranda rights away or any rights away, I've also said it's okay to strip mine away.
Greg: Right. No, and that's the slippery slope.
Tait: That's a slippery fucking slope.
Greg: As long as it's, even the Miranda, there is the thing in there that says imminent danger to the public you don't have to read the Miranda.
Tait: Right.
Greg: There are loopholes.
Tait: Right.
Greg: In the end you get back to like Lincoln and what Lincoln did—
Tait: Sure.
Greg: —when he did habeas corpus stuffs so there are these loopholes and there are these gray areas and sometimes I think people play that. You have to look. It's got to pass the common sense test.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's what it's got to do.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It was one of my great friends who's an operator he said that, "Anything that I do has to pass the common sense test," like—[crosstalk]
Tait: Line operator? This is a train— [crosstalk]
Greg: Yes, a person that's— [crosstalk]
Tait: Agent.
Greg: Yes, exactly. An angel of destruction.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: One of the best people I've ever met in my life. He says, "You know things get worry when you're in Iraq, things get crazy. What you're going to do has to pass the common sense test. Does this make sense? Can I articulate why I'm going to do this?"
Tait: Yes.
Greg: As long as he could he didn't have a problem with it. I think that's important because it doesn’t always go down the way you want it to go down.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Especially when you've got a life on the line.
Tait: You've got to err in the side of caution. I mean it's like if your buddies are dying and then— [crosstalk]
Greg: Right, but the flipside to that is like you're saying; you just can't go into people's houses and like, "Everybody out and naked!"
Tait: We're not in Iraq.
Greg: Yes, so there has to pass the common sense test. If you don't that then there needs to be consequences.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I would hesitate before I pass out a lot of judgment on that stuff because I know how complex, I've been there and I've seen how complicated and intricate it is. I'm very cautious before I say, "This is the way it should be."
Tait: I'm not in any way saying that the way specific agents are acting is out of line but what I'm saying is that whoever gave them the orders—
Greg: Right. Those are the politicians.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: The politicians, right.
Tait: That's the next movie I want to see. I want to see a movie with these guys that are delta force, force recon guys, they come together and they go, "You know what we're going to get the people, put us in here for corporate interests, not for American rights, to benefit themselves and their billionaire friends and we're going to do a hit movie on them." What do you think; do you want get in there?
Greg: I think so but I have my idea of a movie where the billionaire friends pay me a lot of money to do like the other movies.
Tait: You son of a bitch. [inaudible]
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: You'd either ill or die first.
Greg: I would.
Tait: Fernando Chian, he says hello to you. Fernie Chian.
Greg: Oh, Fernie's the man. Hello Fernie. He's such a good dude.
Tait: Yes. You met him on that show in Boston.
Greg: I met him on the set of Warrior.
Tait: Yes, Warrior.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Was that all in Boston or Philly or T: Was that all in Boston or Philly?
Greg: Yes, Philly. Pittsburg.
Tait: Okay.
Greg: Yes. I think. I can't even remember; I've been to so many places but yes. What a good guy.
Tait: Yes. He's rad, man.
Greg: He's such a good dude, great stunt guy. I can't say a bad thing about him.
Tait: No, he's fantastic.
Greg: Yes, he is. I made a lot of great friends there on set that I've kept up with over the years.
Tait: Cool.
Greg: The director Gavin O'Connor, he's directing another movie now and he is just an amazing person. I love watching him work. I just like to go on movie sets and watch these guys do what they do.
Tait: It's so crazy.
Greg: It’s amazing.
Tait: Those directors that are like real visionary like that.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: I don't know, I've never told you about that. I watched that movie, it was like, I was so scared when I went to that movie because I was like, "This is some cheesy—"
Greg: Right.
Tait: You know what I mean. I think that's a lot of us—It made me cry, that movie.
Greg: That's great.
Tait: It was beautiful. Seeing your fingerprints all through it was beautiful. Like anybody that's your friend would just saw all the [inaudible] man. Your fingerprints all over that film. I mean, right now, man just [inaudible] what I'm talking about.
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: Beautiful; and the tributes to mask.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Yes, it's crazy. What a beautiful homage.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: It's a mixed martial arts and what that was in the struggle. What that can be and the beauty and everything that's all wrapped up in there.
Greg: Yes, it was a great movie and it was a great experience. We're always thankful to Mask for so many things that they did for all of us.
Tait: What were your best thoughts to him?
Greg: Oh man, I don't have one.
Tait: I'm sure you have memories.
Greg: Sure we'd be here all day doing that. I mean he is... I just always loved, he's like John Dotson, actually John Dotson and Mask remind me of each other, like you would say, "You won't catch him without a smile," he had dark moments, we all do but when he saw you, he was genuinely happy to see you.
Tait: There's nobody else in the world but you.
Greg: Exactly. He just loved it and he'd grab on you and he'd ask for advice and they'd do is just stick.
Tait: Boisterous and laughing.
Greg: Yes and just everything that I like about, like loud Americans.
Tait: Right.
Greg: He was the personification of everything positive about loud Americans.
Tait: Yes. Loud and full of love.
Greg: Right. Exactly
Tait: You know what I mean? There's no negativity about that motherfucker.
Greg: No, exactly.
Tait: Just full of laughter and spreading that.
Greg: Right.
Tait: The one of my favorite things he ever said was that thing, "I mightn't have touched touch a million people but I might touch somebody that touches a million people."
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's a guy that got it, man.
Greg: He really did. I mean, now you can even, we can see them all again all day and talk about all positive stuff that he did. I owe him and Scraypen Punk. Those guys are amazing to me. I love them to death; all of them. Those are my family for life. They're such great guys. You can't say enough good things about them.
Tait: The coolest thing, too, as I looked at that, what does Camo this podcast thing is that, Rogan is that, when I started thinking about it when we'd all travel around and we'd just talk in planes and in cars and after gigs at the hotel or whatever and we'd just shoot, like going to nightclubs and shit, never really my scene [?].
Greg: Yes, yes.
Tait: —but what I love is like when RA and I will sit around until 3 in the morning afterwards and just talk.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You know what I mean? That kind of thing, he was like, you're having these uncommon situations and you meet these characters and you're, it's like people in Indiana aren't hearing this.
Greg: Right.
Tait: They're not privy to this. He's like, "It's important I think maybe to do this thing and I really wanted to keep doing it.
Greg: Oh, that's cool.
Tait: I was like, "All right." Then it's like a little work, like you've got to go of your way a little bit.
Greg: Right.
Tait: I'm lazy. I'm sloppy and lazy.
Greg: Yes, right.
Tait: See what I mean?
Greg: No.
Tait: I'm not doing any of that very well but I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll do that. Then it would make me connect with my friends, two more and mentors and people I'd like meet and all that stuff and have an avenue for that because I think the thing you're talking about with the internet, it is so important.
Greg: It is.
Tait: —toward growth to happen. We're not so dissimilar.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: That's what Mask would bring together. That's what John brings together.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: That smile is uniting.
Greg: Right. That's so important. Yes, it's really cool especially in today's world where the media is so negative all the time.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: I think it would be nice to see some positive stuff.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Somebody did a nice Youtube compilation the other day. The Russian desk, what do they call it, on the cars, dashboard cams? All these are guys helping out with spare tires and really helping old ladies across the street.
Tait: I saw that.
Greg: I was like, "Isn't that nice?" because usually people tune in and they see a tour in Iraq. [crosstalk]
Tait: –tuned in it's like it's almost ominous when you see it.
Greg: Right. [crosstalk] You know something's going to happen
Tait: [inaudible] to match the kindness.
Greg: Right and that was so cool. Stuff like that I'm, "You know what? Thank you Pendulum Swing for bringing our culture back to that kind of stuff."
Tait: There's a video, I think it's Allen Watts, he's the fellow that narrates it, he was a professor and then he gave a bunch of talks and then somebody puts videos to it all. He's talking about when students are asked what to do and where to go from here, what is that I should to do and he's like, "What's your heart's desire?"
Greg: Right.
Tait: —and followed. All the men that I admire the most, it's like a message like that.
Greg: RIght.
Tait: It's always, "Follow your heart's desire. Don't worry about the money. Do whatever you have to live of course but at the same time you follow that and you're into it, somebody else will be into it."
Greg: Right.
Tait: First talking little John, he was one of my first podcasts and go on. You know, you're a midget.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: There's nowhere for you to fight on the world's stage.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You can go to Japan where you can fight in freak shows.
Greg: Right.
Tait: There's not really, it didn't exist. He didn't stop and waiver.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Ted Z, a couple girls I talked to—
Greg: Yes.
Tait: There's no place for women.
Greg: No.
Tait: Up until like a couple months or weeks before he turned around, I thank God for the hypocrite. Like I love being the hypocrite when I can get shown another way and having about face and go, "I was wrong about my thinking."
Greg: Right.
Tait: The hypocrite that is Dana White, when he looks at it and he goes, "You know what, we are going to have women here. I was wrong."
Greg: Yes.
Tait: It's like, but Ted Z, it didn't stop her before that. It wasn't happening.
Greg: RIght. No matter what, yes.
Tait: That kind of thing and like and then walking around and looking at scrapes for punk ass and these guys, these guys are like a rock band.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Someone's fucking T-shirts.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: None of it is making any sense now. Where's that going to go?
Greg: Right.
Tait: They're in the trunk with grapplers when we pull off. You know what I mean?
Greg: Yes, absolutely.
Tait: That's not going to go anywhere.
Greg: They did.
Tait: And they're billionaires, you know?
Greg: Yes.
Tait: This whole thing and it's not about being a billionaire. It's about following your brothers, man.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's really what I'd liked because those are the people that I've been, people that always made the difference to me in my life. What did you learn or where do you go to school?
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Fuck, man, the people that I've been blessed because I don't deserve it certainly, but the people that I've been blessed to walk through my life and that I've been awake enough for moments and decent enough to be able to hear the message, that's the stuff, man.
Greg: Absolutely. I think that like that kind of positivity you just got to do it yourself. You know what I mean? I think that's what I admire about you and about people like Mask and stuff. Do it where it's hard to do, man. You do it in the hood.
Tait: Right.
Greg: You do it in places where, we have this culture now; I wouldn't know if you'd call it the Hood, in the poor communities, there's always been hopelessness there. I mean, New Mexico where I was raised in the South Valley you will not find a poorer place.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: You're not just going to. In the United States, the Reservations is going to be your only step down.
Tait: I mean, I come off from Michigan and [inaudible] frightening, there's a lot of similarities.
Greg: It's the same. Every 'hood's the same. That's what they say.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Now, there's meaner places where the drugs are stronger and so there's more deaths. There are less mean places but hoods are hoods. There's always hopelessness there.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: There is always, you don't know, that island looks great to you as you see on TV but you don't know how to swim to get to that island.
Tait: There's the way [crosstalk]
Greg: Is that island might be[crosstalk]
Tait: [inaudible crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: —doesn’t exist to you.
Greg: Right, so the America that you live in and there's no parent telling you— that was always my thing, well, they have choices. You didn't got no choices because you got no parents telling you what's right and wrong. You're raised by your grandma who's barely, barely conscious, she's there you're just a wild kid. No one is there telling you that stuff. If you didn't get a guy or two in your life that is doing that, that is positive and saying, "No." The rappers aren't doing it now. The rappers—
Tait: It's ridiculous.
Greg: Right, it's because they— before NWA came out, right, when we listened to the rap—
Tait: Right.
Greg: When we were angry kids in the hood—
Tait: Yes, [inaudible] care us one or something given the amount of massive—
Greg: Yes, even like, grandmaster Flash, like all those guys who was all about how the hood sucks, like, "Don't push me because I'm close to the edge. Here's what I see every day."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's something that everybody on the outside can go, "Oh man, you do live with rats. That does suck. You don't have any money to get gas to actually drive out of there. You're trapped. You're trapped there." Then when NWA came out they tapped into that anger. They're like, "I am—" you know what I mean?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: "This sucks and I'm mad and I'm taking control of my own environment." Then it didn't rebound from that. Now everybody's like, "I got money and I'm—"
Tait: Right. "Look at my rims."
Greg: Right. What are you talking about? Your owning your environment but it's not in a way that's positive.
Tait: Yes and the degradation of every woman they've ever met.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait T: That's the whole thing.
Greg: If you're going to do that, that's fine.
Tait: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Greg: Right, but if they're going to do like that whole negative thing, that's fine but that's not going to change because now everybody, all white culture outside of that is immediately dismissive of you. It's like if you're going to try to talk somebody into being religious and you're like screaming at him with the Bible or you come out with signs, you're like, "You're a moron!" they will shut off.
Tait: Right.
Greg: They're shutting you off. There's no positivity there. There's nothing saying, "Man, listen. Here's my life. It sucks. Look and everybody view to help about. Let's change the situation." You don't want to change the situation because— You know what I mean? Nobody's helping them.
Tait: There's the ego that keeps it all coupled because I won't admit that this is bad even though whatever the thing is.
Greg: Right. Nobody's helping; we're so far. F you all. You know what I mean? I think that there needs to be a positive change there. Now, that's a lot harder obviously than it looks—
Tait: Sure.
Greg: —but there have been people that have done it throughout history. I mean from either big guys, Martin Luther King all the way on up there's been people there.
Tait: How brave is that guy? What a soldier.
Greg: All those guys and everybody in that generation that took out Jim Crowe. That's no joke, man.
Tait: I don't even— I look at that stuff and I'm like, generally give me pause. I got, I don't know. I guess that's a while ago that, maybe 19-ish years ago or something that I got locked up in this bank robbery charge.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It struck me a few years ago, I was talking to my Mom and she's like, I was like, "Man, how—" It's just nice that mom can sleep at night and she doesn't wonder what's happening to me.
Greg: Right.
Tait: If I were black, I'd be in fucking prison right now still. Absolutely, you know? That's really a commentary to think of in this world. There's a friend of mine, he's writing a book on all the old stadiums that were getting shut down. This was in 2006 or something and he's traveling from stadium to stadium before they all get bought out by Costco or Dunkin' Donuts or whatever. He's somewhere in Alabama or something and there's this little city outside of the main city. He says, "I'm just walking to get coffee and walking behind this old man, 65, 70 years old. This black kids coming up the street up in front of us, says, 'Morning niggers, morning sir,' as if it's common."
Greg: Yes.
Tait: What you're saying is like, they can see the island but it's like— because I'm like, "What, they don't have TV in Alabama?"
Greg: Right. Yes.
Tait: How do they not know that it is not so unacceptable?
Greg: Right. Yes.
Tait: It's just [crosstalk]
Greg: You can't swim there.
Tait: How is it in those [crosstalk]
Greg: Yes, how can you swim there? I don't know how to get there.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Having that— You know we had the Civil War, you freed the slaves. Then there's the huge rebound with reconstructions, just the terrible things that they did, the KKK and all the assholes were in there.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Then they rebound again with— what was effective was Martin Luther King. He was effective.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: He came; and Turgan Marshall, really he was the guy in there fighting all those battles.
Tait: He's walking in those places where he can get stabbed by any patron.
Greg: Oh, yes.
Tait: Nobody's going to say shit. That's the daunting thing. I was like, here's this isn't 2006 happening.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Juxtapose that to 30 years earlier or whatever.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: This guy is a soldier like with the heart of steel.
Greg: Hundred percent. All those guys were. That's cool; but they were positives. I guess that's my point. There was a warrior culture.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Pacifism was the only tool that they could use like Gandhi or before them. There's a time and a place for it. There message wasn't negative.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: They got a lot of stuff changed. Things are not as bad today. I'm not saying that racism isn't alive and well. You're an idiot if you don't think, it's severe still but it isn't as bad as Jim Crowe.
Tait: It's not like that.
Greg: Ask your grandparents if you think it's as bad as Jim Crowe.
Tait: Yes. Do you agree with this statement? The ruination of America was only started when Latin women go to college.
Greg: [laughing] That's rotten break.
Tait: [laughing]
Greg: We gave them suffrage in that sector when really went down, yes.
Tait: [laughing]
Greg: That's another thing about why it's so hard to get anything done in the positive culture is, it always gets eddied. You know like when you're in a river and there's eddies?
Tait: Sure.
Greg: Like you hear black people talking about Jewish people or other black, like there are literally degrees of black people. If you're this black—
Tait: Right.
Greg: —and you're light skinned—
Tait: Not that you're red boned.
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: —or whatever.
Greg: What are you talking about? You know what I mean? I hate racism except for the slight like, you get eddied. Every culture is the same. All are like that. It's so hard to get things done.
Tait: I mean, when I'm driving down the street and somebody does something that's not as up to my pleasing as it could be—
Greg: Yes.
Tait: I'm like, "Is that fucking Chinese lady?"
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: You know, I'm like looking for that—
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: Then I'm like, "Who is that talking in your head? What the fuck is wrong with your?"
Greg: Right. I think that, I mean, that's human nature, right? I mean, I think a lot of the reasons, if the Native Americans when we first landed were banded together, even later on, I'm talking—
Tait: Really.
Greg: 1800s. If they banded together, we don't have a hell of a time.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: We were using one tribe against the other, they couldn't get along.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: When they kicked the Spanish out, so let's talk about our own culture in New Mexico here. They kicked the Spanish out. How long did it take the Spanish to come back? Ten years, 20 years? They couldn't get along. They formed this coalition. They booted the Spanish out. Spanish are gone; everything's fine. They can't get along. The tribes here in New Mexico can't get along for 10 years. Like 10 years, no one could lead them, no one could get along. They go back to that and the Spanish just rolled right back over them again.
Tait: It's so crazy.
Greg: Why is that? When they were together they have booted them out with no problem.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If they would have banded together it would have been way worse. All you've got to do is get this guy to show you how to get to the Yakama Tribe and then the Yakama—You know what I mean?
Tait: Right.
Greg: You could see it. They took each other out. It was that un-unification. Think about all the Native Americans that were here. There were a lot of them. I know it doesn't look like them but this whole continent had ton of them. If they were banded together like we were banded together, that would have been a war. That would have something to do. But they didn't.
Tait: They fought smarter.
Greg: Right.
Tait: We came over, right?
Greg: Yes.
Tait: We were still lining up in rows.
Greg: Oh, yes, yes. Absolutely.
Tait: I mean, we didn't fight smarter until we learned from the Indians.
Greg: Right.
Tait: —how to do guerilla combat.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: Yes, yes.
Greg: Exactly. If you think about how congenital that is, it's just that we're so tribal that it really takes like strong organization to overcome that and strong message of unities and cohesion and stuff. It's not easy. I have my hats off to anybody; my lazy ass isn't doing it, my hat's off to anybody that's trying. Keep trying and keep being positive. That's all I can say.
Tait: What do you think about, like you talked about synchronicity theory and there's the theory that gets us all just a computer program that people have made in the future and that there's glitches now and then and maybe that accounts for when you have a memory that just comes to you in a flash.
Greg: Right.
Tait: What do you think of all that?
Greg: You've got to show it to me. I'm a scientist. Then I can just start thinking what if aliens came and aliens, not humans made it [crosstalk]
Tait: It's just as plausible to me.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: —as aliens.
Greg: Yes, yes. It really is. In all the like time travel stuff— [crosstalk]
Tait: It's almost that that's the best answer there is really I think as far as—
Greg: If you don't know you can just make everything up. You know what I mean?
Tait: Right.
Greg: It's all kind of all true and none of it's true. [crosstalk]
Tait: Have your best theory.
Greg: Yes, you know what I mean? [It’s] because we don't know. I'm very happy in saying, "I have no idea and I can't wait till you find out."
Tait: Why do you think that is? I mean, there's like as far as, when you say there is a plan, and we talk about everything moves like the birds all move and they all take a right turn at the same time.
Greg: Right.
Tait: There's not a leader that turns; they all do it simultaneously.
Greg: Right.
Tait: All this kind of stuff, so you look at that in simulation theory if we're all just like a big video game—
Greg: Right.
Tait: —that somebody's playing that came from the future or whatever and we're in their database, when you think about those kinds of things and you go it's all based on fear. We all need a plan so I don't let the populace get out of control. As long as I have a plan I can hold the populace together.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It doesn't matter if it's a shit plan. I just need the plan.
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: When I look at like Thor, like that's my guy. I love Thor.
Greg: Right, yes.
Tait: When we're telling my little kids about Thor because that's about what thunder is, because I don't know what thunder is.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then he grows up and then yes, a thunder is that. That's actually what it is verifiably; it's not just a story.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's where we got as Jesus and everything else now.
Greg: Yes, sure.
Tait: Not what it seems like—
Greg: Yes, sure.
Tait: We're trying to assuage this fear of the unknown always as humans and can't just embrace the mystery.
Greg: Right. I think that's one great thing that science does is, science really embraces the mystery. I don't think you're immune to fear when you're a scientist but I think that— [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —it allows you to look at things a little more objectively and maybe a step back. That's not the say that your fear does dictate because-- Here's why fear does dictate, it's because we have evolved to have self-preservation. Self-preservation makes itself manifested through fear. Now, we're just tethered by that system. Meaning that, as social animals you can fear of talking in front of people; that's not going to kill you but you still have that fear that's tethered if you're an evolutionary psychologist kind of a guy. I think that you need to kind of look as objectively as you can. Obviously emotion influences everything we do. We're all of the same construct.
Tait: Right.
Greg: For me, science gives us the most of that, the most of, "Okay, how does this work? I should be always to predict this. Okay, I did this, it didn't work." You can tell it works really well when a scientist has great ideas and they're completely wrong.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Like they're completely wrong.
Tait: Right, right.
Greg: That's when you know, "Okay, maybe there is something," because you have these brilliant people. Brilliant. People that are so smart they couldn't even widen my, you know they would whiten my eye. They'll ass-whip me.
Tait: I was thinking of Stephen Hopkins with that.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: You look at him and then what he produces and then it's amazing.
Greg: It's all of those guys that are just so crazy-smart. They're wrong. They wrong like, they do these experiments and they're like, "Nope. Negative."
Tait: That's all they're doing. They're obsessed with it.
Greg: Right. That to me says, "Oh, their science works really well. The experimentation and prediction and all of these things, the actual process is not perfect but until you bring me a better system— [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: Right; because everybody can complain but bring me a better system.
Tait: When you talk about fears that throwback as an evolutionary throwback into this then it's a very natural thing. I was talking to a friend of mine; he's a psychologist, the other day. We're talking about sexuality and he's talking about basically he's from what looks like everybody is, whether you're talking about homo or hetero, everybody is, it's a line graph—
Greg: Right.
Tait: Everybody falls in there somewhere and things are more permeable or acceptable societal or whatever in certain ways. Also there are different imprints to happen on dude's head versus female's versus when they're sexualized first.
Greg: Absolutely.
Tait: There's a thing that's a stimulus for them. That is that maybe more forever so with men as it is with women. They're more malleable; their minds are I guess. Then he's talking about, then he brought up rape. He says, "Everything turns on a woman like when they've done—" I forget what test it was but it's like they show them guys and girls, they show them girls and girls, they show them rape stuff, they show them shiny countertops in the kitchen. Then there's these sensors that are hooked up that that considers their arousal response.
Greg: Right
.
Tait: He thinks about that and I said, "What is it about rape? I hear that all the time." He says, "I think it's an evolutionary throwback to where that was kind of the courting for a while, lubrication in that way and it will hurt less and so that became an arousal point.
Greg: Right.
Tait: I thought that is a horrific— [crosstalk]
Greg: Right.
Tait: –if that's true.
Greg: Well and you never know what our ancestors had to go through. It's true. In our day and age though, yes, it should not be good at all.
Tait: It's going to be out of the menu.
Greg: No, that's like if you rape somebody you should go eat the bullet. You know what I mean? You're done.
Tait: Right. It's a trip.
Greg: Yes, you know what's crazy about evolution and what it really does to you. There are things that don't make sense. There are things that aren't led. That's the biggest argument—[crosstalk]
Tait: Yes, like a logic list and such shit. Tagging this to any intellectual capacity.
Greg: Right, but that's evolution because that's what our people had to go through to get to where we are. They had to go through these wars and wars and wars. I don't mean like literally like with armies but I mean like against nature, against each other against all of these things.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: It's a son of a gun that survived. You can forget that living in our air-conditioned stuff.
Tait: Right.
Greg: You can even forget that being in very poor communities around the world.
Tait: Well, whatever it is. Your corners and levels I think shift and adapt towards your environment, right?
Greg: Right, absolutely.
Tait: There are things that you become, that are normal.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You step out of that like, I don't know, I haven't put gloves on and punch somebody and really like I train with my guys sometimes or somebody's getting ready for something but not like that.
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: By that what I mean is not, "I'm going to go up and lay some— [crosstalk]
Greg: [inaudible]
Tait: —mat gym every day. We're going to do a bout. We're going to put in mouthpieces because we need them because your teeth are going to chip out, all the whole thing. I haven't done that in it's been like—
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: [inaudible]
Greg: Right.
Tait: I went down and show a couple of friends the gym once. We went in there with Darren Prescott and Wade Allen and they're like, they said, "Awesome," and they loved it but I left there. Darren says, "How are you feeling?" "I feel like fucking sparring, man." You get in that environment you get drawn into it again and it's like all those things you find in homeostasis— [crosstalk]
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: —where the heart cells in the petridish or whatever. Then leaving there I was like, "God, all I ever do is like save, man. That was so violent what you do." It wasn't until that day driving home that I've that I've felt like, "That is fucking— That's a wicked violent environment."
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: In that way from an outside perspective. It was the first time I've had an outside perspective ever.
Greg: That's really cool. That's cool that you can step out and say, "Yes, there are—" [crosstalk]
Tait: It's a hard trip.
Greg: Yes. I think that's important. I think that it's important to get out of your safety zones to redefine how you look at things.
Tait: That's another thing I was going to ask you about because you've seen this so much and I don't know, in a small way I get pieces of it about redefining yourself, about like, I remember when I first moved to LA and I was like you know, and I had some successes as an MMA fighter before I left and then fought in a few shows out there and then I got on the Ultimate Fighter and then all that but like, "Who are you now?" When I first got there, now you're nobody and who are you now. Then kind of like as a fighter, who are you now? That's easy because there are a lot of accolades and it's cool. There are kids are going, "Oh, who's that guy, Mom? Oh, I've seen that guy," and whatever.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then you're not a fighter anymore. Who are you now?
Greg: Right, right.
Tait: All those stuff and how do you deal with that because psychologically let me tell you, man, that's a fucking twist. It happens. Then there are lots of guys that stay in, too. When I started boxing, I was like, how do you not stay in too long?
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's ugly. You see guys that do stay in too long and there are latent brain damage and stuff that happens.
Greg: Right. Absolutely.
Tait: They're trying to hang on in these little tiny shows but even a guy as successful as Evander Holyfield, he's fighting that [inaudible].
Greg: Yes.
Tait: It's crazy. How do you— Do you take any hand in that as a coach?
Greg: I tried to. I think it's important that you— There are different avenues within the martial arts. Sometimes you get hooked on something; you're an addict and you can't ever let it go. That's addiction. If that happens to you then you're going to pay the price that every addict has to pay if you can't redefine yourself. For instance, even me as an MMA coach, I work a lot with the military stuff just to get out of, while I love helping the people that I care about which is our military very much, but to get out of MMA—
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —but still do what I do, I still deal with combat, still deal with strategies, still get in there, I go and do that which is very similar but very different.
Tait: Now what did you [inaudible] of that?
Greg: Just training different military and stuff but also coming up learning a lot like I've put on a white belt again and teach me all these shooting protocols; teach me this. How do you clear a room? Teach me this. Teach me that. Teach me this. That makes me more effective. Now I know what they do, what they deal with better.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Now I can think about and you go out there and you watch and you do whatever you need to do to get the experience for that. At that point then you can be more effective but that's completely out of my safety zone as far as, you know what I mean?
Tait: Right, yes.
Greg: That's great. I go strap on a white belt and for the last, you know, how many years I've been doing that but it's a lot of fun and so redefining yourself even within your structure I think it's so important. There is that Fulgazi song, it's my favorite Fulgazi song of all time, Long Distance Runner. That song is about that; about just making sure that you don't get, don't hang up with what you've already done.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Keep pushing, keep looking for new avenues. That's important.
Tait: It keeps it fresh for sure; stimulus and everything.
Greg: Right. You have to stay inspired but you also have to remember that if you hang out at one place too long, the water gets moldy. You got to flow on. It doesn't mean you have to change the river completely but you should change something about it.
Tait: Speaking of moldy water, what was going with you in Louisiana for a while?
Greg: That's right. [laughing] I love Louisiana. We do that fight, Master TV show which is—
Tait: Is it airing yet?
Greg: No, it's coming out this, I don't even remember when the day it is, this summer, in a couple of months.
Tait: Sick.
Greg: Yes, it's fun. It's interesting.
Tait: It was Massie out there and then Joey—
Greg: Joey Vis and yes, some assistant coaches. It was me and Joe Warren who I love to death, and Randy who I love and Frank. Basically I got paid to coach and sit around and talk shit with my friends.
Tait: Oh great.
Greg: It was so fun.
Tait: Did you go get out and get a cheesecake?
Greg: No, I didn't. I had a king's cake and had a bunch of other stuff.
Tait: There are some great places there, man.
Greg: Everywhere you eat, the hole in the walls in Louisiana are like amazing. We went to this place I was like, "Whoa. We're in the hood." It was some of the best food I've ever had.
Tait: It's like the walls are made of driftwood. It's just eroding as you're sitting there and delicious food.
Greg: Right and I'll tell you something else. I really like the culture of New Orleans. We were on the west bank there and the neighborhood wasn't great.
Tait: Right.
Greg: We're in but when they had the Mardi gras, they had the parades everywhere, everybody was out. There was not a single fight and everybody was drunk. I said, "In Albuquerque, that would last 15 seconds." If you have a parade to the South Valley and everybody got drunk, "See you." I was raised in [?] don't try to tell me it wasn't. I was raised in the South Valley. I was raised in the South Valley as you can be and I know our people.
Tait: It's not a violent or as scary in certain ways. It's a whole different kind of desperation there, like you might carjacked by a 12-year old but there's that stuff every weekend en masse, these people, thousands of people take to the streets. We did the Red Restaurant it was called, while we were there.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's like a running with the bulls in Pamplona.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Except it's girls that are roller derby girls with wiffle ball bats, with horns in their helmets and they, I think they wear all, everybody's dressed up in certain colors. They run down and they beat you in the ass with the wiffle ball bat. It's like a walking or running cocktail party.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Like you said, there's no trouble. There's no police present; it's not necessary.
Greg: No, exactly. I was shocked by that. For me, I was like, how can all these people and we're in the hood, how can all these people get together just to have a great time? I love it. Utter bliss because you know, they're still poor.
Tait: Maybe they wear out sometimes they learn how to behave.
Greg: Right, yes. It's in you, you know what I mean?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's just cool when you travel to a lot of third world places is that you see that some people have dignity in their poverty. Some people, even though they don't have anything, when they invite you into their home, they will give you whatever they have. Like, "Oh please, here."
Tait: Right.
Greg: It's nothing; it's pigeon. They're giving you pigeon but that's what they got. You eat the hell out of it because you're just thankful. You know what that meant to that family.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: There's a dignity there. I guess that positivity, that dignity, that class, I feel like I would like to see that back in America. I think that in a lot of places it would make it easier to those people, those of us growing up in poor communities if that dignity was there more prevalently. I mean, obviously there's always going to be shit heads.
Tait: Give them something to shoot.
Greg: Yes, but there's a culture there. You can all get together and drink and have fun and not fight and shoot somebody.
Tait: It's a lot like a lot of, I remember I wrote a paper, I was supposed to write a treatise about what is it that, who did you admire and how did they affect your life? Who did you look up to? What's a role model to you: A lot of the stuff, there's a couple of humans but then mostly it's out of books.
Greg: Sure.
Tait: It's like characters out of books that I've looked up to and I thought, "That's a fellow that I'd like to be like, you know."
Greg: Right. With our mythology has a power. I think that's very, like mythology is so important. That's what George Lucas gave to everybody, I think, really well with the Indiana Jones and the Star Wars. I think he gave us modern mythology. I read The Lord of the Rings, not because it's a movie I've been reading it since I was a kid once a year because that's some of the most powerful mythology I've ever read. If you want to talk about dealing with power, being a good human, the temptations taht you'll be fighting.
Tait: —with addiction.
Greg: Addiction.
Tait: Gollum is the best junkie in film.
Greg: Ever.
Tait: I mean that's—
Greg: You get a sense of it. This is what you will deal with. This is beautiful. Little things that character say there because Tolkien was so ridiculously smart. World War I, he'd been there. You're not going to tell anything Tolkien that Tolkien about death that he doesn't know about life, you know what I mean? This is a man that knows. He studied all that ancient mythology, Beowulf and everything. Just to have that, I think is so important. Having powerful mythology is a very, very powerful tool. It has been in my life.
Tait: That's what I wanted to ask, too. Your thoughts on that mythology being so strong and the idea that the Bible is 100% true if you believe it's true kind of thing.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's not really; it's like you talking about the plan. It's like it's not so important what the plan is. It's not so important what your belief structure is, it's that you've got one.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Then that you believe in it 100%.
Greg: I think that's so important to make that book whatever you believe in makes sense. You know what I mean? It has to not hurt people in the most it can. You know what I mean? You have to have that but you have to have something that is relevant and that makes sense and it's dangerous when you have mythology that is wrong or actually hurts people or doesn't evolve with the times. It's not timeless.
Tait: Right.
Greg: There's a lot of the Bible I think that is timeless and there's a lot of it that isn't.
Tait: Sure. The only parts I thought were really exciting though were in Revelations. That's my favorite.
Greg: [laughing] Did it give a revelation?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: You know the Bible has so much knowledge. Even I don't pooh-pooh the Bible ever. I don't pooh-pooh any holy book. I respect all of it; with a deep respect because that's knowledge and people at that time in those places they put their knowledge into that book. If you want to believe it's from God, then that's fine with me. I don't care. For me, it's in disrespect to the Bible, it's in disrespect to Koran, it's disrespect to those other holy books people find very important not like 10 people but—
Tait: Not one.
Greg: A lot of smarter people than I am.
Tait: For me, there are lots of fucking idiots out there, let's be honest. There are a lot of idiots to follow all that shit or whatever. I mean there are a lot of idiots to follow everything.
Greg: Right.
Tait: However, the people that I have admired, that has changed their lives in such a pinnacle way because of that belief is so powerful. It's kind of, when I think about loyalty and commitment you know and for a long time, like loyalty is if you got to tell anybody how important that is, boy you've really got to just pull the car over. It's a long talk about stuff I guess perceived in that but you know when I think about commitment and I always think it's kind of, it's like you read something and some girl on Facebook going, "You get yourself a committed man. Fuck this [?] or whatever."
Greg: Yes, yes.
Tait: Oh, that retard. You think what that is and I was talking with Ike about it. I was like, "I feel like it's like I can teach you all the movement structure that we need to set up a good double leg."
Greg: Right.
Tait: "Distancing, lower your level, shooting, turning the corner, all the lacing and all that but I can't ever get you to take somebody down if you're not commitment to that movement." He says, "Yes, I got to have commitment." I'm like, "How about if that extrap— like," and you know they talk about as above so below but I look at microcosms and macrocosms they all mimic each other identically in every instance. Just like that, how about extrapolate that into your business, into your relationships.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Do you expect it to work if you don't have commitment to it?
Greg: Right and I think commitment's a very— There are two things there. I will say commitment can be a double-edged sword because those are the same guys that are strapping bombs to their chests and blowing up kids. They're committed to those ideals.
Tait: Right.
Greg: That commitment turns negative.
Tait: I feel that's more of the hopelessness or like a frustration like "We don't know have anything else to do."
Greg: No, no, and you're right but there's still commitment. You can't have anything like that if there's nobody saying, "Hey, hey, whoa, whoa. Slow down; a little commitment. Let's look at this."
Tait: Right.
Greg: For me what that is optimism and pragmatism and the balance of the two. If one gets out of balance then you're hosed.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If you are a pragmatist like I can tell you every way to do every move in every world you will never win a fight. You'll never a fight because when stuff goes wrong you just have to be a blatant optimist.
Tait: Right.
Greg: "No, I'm going take this guy down. I don't care that he's a 9-time world champion wrestler."
Tait: Right.
Greg: "I'm going to take him down." That's not blatant optimism and that's at your core. That by itself is just like, "Well, I don't need to train or anything because I'm just going to take him down." Like obviously that's not out of bounds with pragmatism.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: If you have the balance between that, between pragmatic, this is what needs to happen, and optimism, this is what is going and this is what I am going to make happen.
Tait: Right.
Greg: That for me is the key. My dad, I always tell this story because it's such a powerful story, a) it shows what a dumbass I am and how brainiac my dad is, but I was on pragmatism for a while like I did Dewey, I did everybody like a year and a half. I was like pragmatism as a martial arts, it's all ABC and D. It's science; it's breaking it down. That was my dad that taught me that. He's my usual dad fashion, he goes, "Well son, that's great; but if you're that much pragmatist, there's no room for optimism," and then he walked off. It shattered. He was right. It shattered my whole world like a year and a half of study, like, "You couldn't have done that a year and a half ago when I started Dewey, Dad?"
Tait: It's like you've never heard of it.
Greg: Yes, right. No, I wouldn't have and he's right. That's what I really learned. That goes for everything. I was used to [?] and Richade Evans. That's fight. I have never been to a fight. I have been doing longer than most people.
Tait: Right.
Greg: I'm definitely more of it than almost anybody. I've never had a fight where people were like, "Sean is actually going to get slaughtered." How can you, in good conscience, put Richade Evans with [?] Liddle? All what Shot does is take people down. He sprawls and knocks people up. How would you even take this fight, Greg?" You know what I mean? Over and over and over, I was for hours like, "God, it hurt." They were all pragmatists. That's what fans are; they're pragmatists. [inaudible]
Tait: Right.
Greg: You know what I mean? They're all breaking it down. If the only guy in the room and knew he was going to beat him, it was Richade. You know what I mean? That's an optimist.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's what we all had. We're like, "Yes, we're going to win."
Tait: My moment for that is us sitting next to Richade, in between Richade and Keith Stead. A fucking Teg Abbot was behind us yelling; he's hammered.
Greg: I love Teg.
Tait: Maybe Abe was behind us and he sees Isaac, "Terry! Terry!" Then he's [?], "That's Terry Bradshaw!" Fucking dolt.
Greg: [laughing] Teg's so funny.
Tait: It got so heavy for me seeing Keith walk out and get in the ring and he's alone. By alone I mean, there's not anybody in there except maybe the three of us sitting right there that is with him.
Greg: Right.
Tait: I mean, that's of course not true, but like—
Greg: Yes, yes.
Tait: It's fucking heavy, dude and it's all the lights out there all the rest of the place is dark and I'm like, "Well, this is striking endeavor he's about to undertake."
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Then what he did there, just to watch like that was so powerful for me in that way. Just that belief you know. That's, I guess the thing like, people are like, "Whoa, how good were you?" I'm like, at the best levels, mediocre-less. Like I'm not good but garnered so much over to my career fighting just from experiences like that, knowing guys like that and seeing that and going, "Holy shit." It made me go, "Maybe you, too."
Greg: Yes, no, absolutely."
Tait: "Maybe you can believe a little, too."
Greg: Absolutely.
Tait: That, man, is a fucking beautiful thing, bro.
Greg: It really is. Just believing in yourself I think is, and not listening to anything negative is I think is important.
Tait: How much do you think you can err on the side of that? I mean, because I've been like last bunch of years I've been really looking towards that having going, "I'm just not going to think about that because I don't think it does my brain waves. I don't think it does my synapses and electricity in my brain any good to dwell on that." People were like, "Well, you're in denial then." I'm like well when I think about an issue I get so obsessed that the bigger, you know it's just a little issue man but it's— [crosstalk]
Greg: It's going to go— [crosstalk]
Tait: It could be a problem over there and then start looking at them like, "No, that's a real problem. We should look at that." Then I start tinkering with them I'm like, "Hey, this is a fucking problem," and they becomes a real problem before I know.
Greg: Yes, well, and that's your own utility. I think that everybody has their own path and that's your utility. I guess my answer would be that the balance of pragmatism and optimism. If you're all optimist all the time like that whole of the secret thing of life.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If you just think good things it will start happening.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Voltaire he wrote Candid to counter that whole thing. He's like, "Here's a great guy that takes all kinds of grace that pages get shit on by life is a dire thing."
Tait: Right.
Greg: For me, it's a balance. There needs to be, okay yes, I will address this problem but I'm going to do it relentlessly optimistically.
Tait: Have you ever had that, you mean because you are that, that's a good way to profile you as relentlessly optimistic. That's some tombstone shit for you.
Greg: [laughing]
Tait: Have you ever walked out with a guy or in any event, maybe not just fight, and a guy so optimistic and just gets insurmountable obstacles. You're like, "I don't know. Okay, let's go."
Greg: Yes, I've been on that end on my own self and been on that end as a [inaudible] so, yes.
Tait: [inaudible] are like that.
Greg: No, it's true. Both times there's a feeling of just, you almost feel sorry for him but you're like, "Man, you're in for a real war here." I mean I always think we're going to win. I'm so biased. I'm always like, when we don't win I'm like, "Damn it. What?"
Tait: Who else's side would you be on, right?
Greg: Right, that's my guy. Even sometimes when I'm like, "Wooh, it's going to be a tough one." There's going to be a reward there like I think it's going to be great. I like that. I think it's wonderful. Even if you're going to lose you might as well go out with a smile.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I saw a great Saturday morning breakfast cereal which is a web cartoon comic and it's brilliant. The guy is brilliant. He gave me a thing in my office, a little personalized thing. This amazing guy, Zach Winner, it was a woman before a firing squad and how existentialism can be handy. It said, I forget exactly how the joke went but basically it says, "You might as well tell a joke," like she tells a terrible firing squad because they're not going to make any difference to you if you're just staring with fear at the guns. You're going out to go out with a joke. What's the difference?
Tait: Right.
Greg: I like that a lot. If it's arbitrary—
Tait: Have fun.
Greg: Yes, then just go out with a smile.
Tait: When I got arrested by the federal marshals on that bank robbery, there was this, they're doing elbow prints there. It's no joke. I was a kid, man. Going through it and he's like, there's Edgar Hoover you know, "Yes?" I was like, "Is it true he really wear panties." The dudes were like, "You don't have any idea the kind of trouble you're in." I was like, "You guys should know. You're the FBI. Like, what the fuck, you don't know?" Maybe there was a little bit of that [?]
Greg: There's a lot of that. That's awesome, yes. [crosstalk]
Tait: At the other end of it I was like, "I'm here and this is fucked. I'll try not to get raped later tonight."
Greg: Right. Guys will go out with a smile.
Tait: You're going to have a little fun.
Greg: You know I think that's a warrior attitude. I really, seriously that's a warrior attitude. That I think what defines warriors is the ability to take a situation that would crush other people, because it's not necessarily fighting.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Right now, I'm not joking with you. I can go get two guys that are drunk in front of my gym, who've been to my other gym, and I'll put them in a cage and they'll fight you right now. If I say there's a bottle of beer in it for them, does that make them fighters than warriors? No, those are drunken guys that I'm throwing down. A warrior to me is something a little bit different. A warrior to me is somebody who is professional about it and goes through the torture and the time [crosstalk]
Tait: Who isn't going to be pulled into it otherwise, right?
Greg: Right.
Tait: Joey said a great thing. He was like, "I'd rather buy these guys a beer than have to beat them up, Tait."
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: I'm like, "I like that."
Greg:. That's it because he's a warrior. That to me is not just about fighting. It's about how you come at life.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: Are you relentlessly optimistic? It's easy to be negative. It's the easiest thing in the world.
Tait: Yes, that's the default. That's the common stuff, right?
Greg: It's easy to be negative. When stuff sucks, it's hard to be an optimist.
Tait: Maybe that's the thing that I turn onto most is that people that demand to be uncommon.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Like I'm not going to be common. It's the common thing to do and I'm not going to do that.
Greg: Exactly. I mean it takes guts.
Tait: Where do you want to be in like five years?
Greg: On an island surrounded by bikini models.
Tait: This is now pragmatism rather than optimistic [laughing]
Greg: [laughing] I have to balance that out with any pragmatism at all. Sorry Honey. Hi, Stephanie.
Tait: Yes, right.
Greg: Right, kids. You'll be fine. No, in five years I want to be, I always look at it, can I kick my own ass and can I outthink myself last year? As long as I'm doing that I'm all right. Now, eventually as I get older— [crosstalk]
Tait: Right.
Greg: —it's going to go downhill but I get trickier. That's the real things. I want to relentlessly self-improved. In five years I'll always be a lot better than I am sitting here right now.
Tait: Do you still think you'll be coaching.
Greg: Yes, oh, yes. I'll still love. I mean the pace is killing me right now but I love it so much.
Tait: Do you put [cadet] though a lot? I mean you put cadet in a way but like, you've got a huge— [crosstalk]
Greg: Coaching staff, yes, I really do. They're just keeping me afloat. We're all in it together, me and my big bro, Mr. Wrinkleson. Yes, I am expanding in other areas I think but I still love it too much.
Tait: Right.
Greg: I can't think of waking up and doing something else. I couldn't play for your games all day.
Tait: Right.
Greg: I couldn't get like high and to call my friends.
Tait: No, you're going to be giving and challenging yourself no matter what.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: That's what I was like, where does this go, you know?
Greg: I want to improve. I want to get more into the strategy like studying with the scientists which I've been doing a lot of lately and just keep pushing boundaries. I still want to [inaudible] new moves.
Tait : Books [?]
Greg: Yes, I'm going to write. I have one more book that I'm going to write. That's going to be the strategy book I think. Hopefully it will transcend and amaze. It will be an actual like this is strategy, here's how you think, here's an example of this and here's an example of that. Repeatable, right? Empirical, repeatable examples over and over. Here's if you're going to be hand-to-hand fighting, here's small unit, large unit, whatever it may be.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's going to be I think my and then I'll be done. Then I'll garden or something good.
Tait: The fuck you will.
Greg: Yes. [laughing] I'll be really good at gardening. Your next podcast will be like, "Listen, I've got my tulips. Enormous!"
Tait: You'll be like Mike Tyson with his pigeons.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: I love these!
Greg: Exactly. You got to have balance. Yes, it's been such a great ride so far. I don't want it to end yet.
Tait: I was talking with Keith and he was talking about like he's "I kind of feeling better than ever," and he's just been doing a bunch of boxing and stuff lately.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Maybe I'll go do that again. What are your thoughts about, do you have any directives or, not directives per se but like, do you guys, have you spoken about that?
Greg: Yes, my thing is you know, my fighters are men and I give as much advice as they ask especially the old, my guys have been through everything with me, like Keith has been through everything with me.
Tait: That's an orgy right there.
Greg: Exactly. I will give advice if he asks but I'm not going to tell any man how to live.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If they come and they say, "Coach, what do you think?" I would say, "A, B and C."
Tait: Yes, yes, yes.
Greg: I'll be honest with them. Keith's have go a few more in him. I'm not too worried about it. I don't think he's got 10 more years in him but he's got a few more years in him.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If he didn't I would tell him, "Listen, you know, be careful. You're going to do what you're going to do but be careful."
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I don't believe that. I think he can do a couple more, no problem.
Tait: Right. He's dangerous.
Greg: He is. That for me is a thing. I always look at it like riding together on the range. You know what I mean? These are all my cowboys. I'm just the head ranch there. You know what I mean? I'm just like, "You guys just go do this and go do that," but at the end of the day they're all men. They're riding with their hats on and I'm not going to be presumptuous to be like a dad, "You do this right now."
Tait: Right. "This is what I need you to do."
Greg: Yes, just like the wild bunch or any of these guys. Can you imagine any of those guys being like, "Listen the leader is respected but he gives respect back?" That's what a leader does so that's the respect I give back to them.
Tait: You're a guy that's definitely, I mean, you lead from the front as they say.
Greg: I do my best to do that.
Tait: It's just, I mean, that's duplicate-able. That's so admirable that you want to know. How are you successful like this? I just watch you, you know. It's been, I don't know. Then, it's weird you get such a broad knowledge base whether you're reading about ship wrecks or about science. I guess it's all the kind of delves into one after a while.
Greg: It does. I found I was talking to my little brother, it's about like, I always bring everything back to combat. I didn't notice that I have done that but like if I'm studying frackles, I say, "How do frackles work for fighting?"
Tait: Right. [crosstalk]
Greg: Everything comes right. Right but what's that done beautifully for me is give me a little bit of knowledge outside of fighting. I know how weather patterns work.
Tait: Right.
Greg: —because of Chaos. I was looking at Chaos to see how to apply the fight; because I did that, I learned all the stuff or you learn whatever it may be.
Tait: When you speak of music.
Greg: Right. The music; how do the music relate to fighting? Suddenly I'm doing all exactly. I've been able to use combat as a focal point to be, you know I'm not a huge Renaissance man, but at least I have a little bit [crosstalk]
Tait: You're a Renaissance man, let's be honest.
Greg: —about that, a little bit of knowledge in Sumerias and fighting gave me that. Combat gave me that.
Tait: How does that help you in raising kids?
Greg: I think it helps me raising kids. There's a lot that martial arts help me in raising kids. First of all the knowledge based on the kids can see. There are a lot of really cool ideas there. I don't want either of my kids to be fighters at all. My son had done MMA; my daughter did for a while just to get some self-defense stuff.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: My son does just because for guys, the science is different. I'm not being sexist; I'm being, "That's society." Realistically he's going to get in a lot more fights than my daughter is.
Tait: It's an honor thing. You know what; you know you're teaching guys that are 18 to 40 or whatever.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: Now, it's like, "I want to them to be on speed with these guys."
Greg: Yes, exactly. Just to be, you have to be able to handle yourself. It gives you confidence, you know what I mean?
Tait: Sure.
Greg: —so you're not quiet in the room. You can talk.
Tait: I have to say, like the self-defense thing in LA, that is what's weird about the plan. I'm like, "Listen, we're not going to go over a ton of stuff. We're going to talk about awareness. We're going to talk about your voice. We're going to talk about how you position yourself. We're going to talk about Will who's 6'5" and 280lbs. His struggles are going to be, when he's in court—
Greg: Right. [laughing]
Tait: He's absolutely going to [crosstalk]
Greg: Yes, exactly.
Tait: First it's his wife.
Greg: Right.
Tait: She's going to try not to get raped and killed.
Greg: Yes, exactly.
Tait: Everybody needs their voice but for different reasons. You may be like, "Hey, I don't want any trouble," over and over again.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: Whatever the thing is but, here we're going to do some simple arm grab when somebody goes and pushes you.
Greg: Right.
Tait: We're going to take the back and make yourself lock on your neck and you're going to drag them back and they're not going to be able to stop you.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's going to occur. You're going to survive until that occurs and then you'll have a kill point.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That's all we're talking about. You know how this ends. You know more than that guy.
Greg: Right, yes, absolutely.
Tait: That's the whole thing that I was thinking about fighting. Here's all these grown men who doesn't really know how to defend themselves. I'm like, "That is reprehensible."
Greg: No, it is, and you should be then your last course of action obviously if you're in this modern society. You should be intelligent enough or well-trained enough to make it your last course of action.
Tait: Right.
Greg: I think that kids need a relationship with violence. I think that, now it doesn't necessarily have to be— [crosstalk]
Tait: They'll just make punch smiles when you say that.
Greg: They do. All these white kids, they're wasting people in schools.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: —have no relationship to violence. They have relationships to video games.
Tait: It's true.
Greg: They have relationships to the Matrix movie. That is not violence. That is not what if feels like to have a bloody nose. Ask that kid what it feels like to have a bloody nose.
Tait: I can't look to in a white bone comes through and there's red blood at first and you just see the fat and whiteness and then the blood starts to come. Talk about that and then tell me how easy it is to shoot somebody in your video game, asshole.
Greg: Exactly. Getting pushed around, that's not real violence. Having a relationship with violence is being empathetic and understanding how it feels not only to hurt somebody but to be hurt as well. I think that's important because if you don't have a relationship to violence you get to these aberrations, these weird kind of eddies where you just get into these crazy places.
Tait: The same thing as muting sexuality.
Greg: Exaclty, same.
Tait: I mean, it's not a coincidence that pre-spot kids—
Greg: Exaclty.
Tait: We made that happen by this construct.
Greg: Exactly. It's the same.
Tait: It's true, too, that every, I mean, most douchebags that are really true 100% like they worked at it, like they're really douche-y, they've never been punched in the mouth.
Greg: Right.
Tait: That would have gotten fixed a long time ago if they did just take a couple of shots to the head.
Greg: That's right and maybe more than once [crosstalk]
Tait: [crosstalk] pay for this.
Greg: Right. [laughing]
Tait: It's behavioral. All right, I'll do it.
Greg: Right, exactly. I think there's a lot to that. Everybody's so afraid of violence because it is dangerous. It is powerful.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: If you don't have these control parameters and you don't understand it, I'm not in football but I was fine for it.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: Football, the danger there is no martial art to it. It's like just wreck the other guy.
Tait: Right.
Greg: You get these bullies that are big and just enjoy wrecking these people without saying, "Well, listen now, and think what it feels like to be wrecked. There should be—" You know what I mean?
Tait: Right.
Greg: There has to be— It's not just like, suffering needlessly is pointless but if have suffering that it leads to wisdom then it's something.
Tait: Yes, it's through breakthrough.
Greg: Right. That's the power of the martial arts. You can be a football player and get a relationship to violence if you have a coach that says, "You are a big powerful man, kid. You want to hurt people because remember when you get slammed..." you know what I mean?
Tait: Right.
Greg: If you have a good teacher— [crosstalk]
Tait: —or here is the idea, keep your quarterback safe versus "I really need you to hit that running back and [crosstalk]
Greg: Right. Right, exactly. It's so much about like we said setting that culture. How are we going to set our warrior culture? How are sheep dogs going to act?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: That's important because it takes courage to be a fighter. It takes courage to be a sheep dog. That's what I called the cops and the military those are sheep dogs.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: They're out there protecting us. How is that culture, are you going to be, are you going to pick at anything they do or how are you going to treat your warriors?
Tait: Yes.
Greg: How are you going to set that culture?
Tait: I mean, think about it. To me is unfathomable that I'm putting a young man in an impossible decision-making position where he's going to do unspeakable things to avoid danger for himself, to protect his brother. It's almost unconscionable to both not be in that position and to have a real commentary on that position.
Greg: Right, exactly.
Tait: It's a whole new different thing. What do you think about kids like, first time I was [inaudible] somebody posted something in the internet and they're like my kid is, "I don't know anything." Eight or 12 or something, this guy's seen his first boxing match and I thought a real boxing match and I saw a video of it and wow, they are smacking each other and as far as combat with kids and as far as latent brain trauma and as far as all that, what do you think, like you said your son's in and I may have learn in that. What is that mean and what does that look like for a—"
Greg: It's about control. I mean, that what's the great thing about teaching young kids how to deal with violence is you've got their head gears in there, pads on and everything else but they shouldn't be bumming 100% on each other.
Tait: Right.
Greg: If you get hit hard you say, "Hold on and control," because it's a balance, right?
Tait: Right.
Greg: I mean, you don't want to live in a Nerf world so your brain lives okay, but you don't want to get blunt trauma to the head over and over again to prove some silly point. It's got to be a balance.
Tait: What do you think about that as far as goal to goal boxing like we've had that since I was a kid anyway? I mean for a long time there were kids like 12 years old or 16 years old. Is there a time that it's too young to take striking trauma to the head?
Greg: I think there is. I think that anytime that you're young you've got to be very careful with that. I think there are ways to mitigate it. There might not be where you shouldn't spar at all because again you need some kind of relationship with it but that's where control comes and fair play and all these things you should be learning as a young martial arts student and I include boxing as a martial art. That's where you should be getting that stuff. Yes, if you're just going to take trauma to the head we all know old boxers that have stayed in too long and they're gone.
Tait: I want to add, I mean with television and like how popularize everything is and you do MMA now and all that, you do the UFC, you know the hilarious stuff that we all laugh about but kids being pushed into unreasonable positions by parents that—[crosstalk]
Greg: Right, that's day one. I mean you get wrestling parents are some of the worst.
Tait: How do you mitigate that?
Greg: You know what, nobody taught the parents.
Tait: None that it's your responsibility but like I mean as a culture.
Greg: Right, well I mean, it just can't be acceptable and it is. It is now. Again, we Americans are entitled.
Tait: [laughing]
Greg: We are. I'm an American and I can say that. We are entitled. We think that we should be respected like everybody else.
Tait: Right.
Greg: At all times. What I say about football should be just as respected as the head coach of the Greenday Packers; like we are the same, he and I.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Just because he does it, I could do it for a living.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: He was just luckier than me.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: All of us have that mentality. It's crazy.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: The debates and stuff and this and that and these arguments and counter-arguments which is fine if you're a fan. It doesn't hurt anybody I mean except for the athletes but you get paid to do that so whatever.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: I think that mentality gets hurt when you have parents that are like that; that are like, "You know what? I'm going to tell you what— You have to do it this way because I never—" You know what I mean?
Tait: Right.
Greg: I should be respected like that.
Tait: I love that theme, too, about like you got to live in a Nerf world and all that. It's kind of where we are in a culture of, I don't know if it's still involved but there people who have friends that have kids, they were like, you know they run a race at school and everybody wins. There's not one person that loses.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's set up so that everybody wins. I was like, "That sounds like a bad idea."
Greg: It's so terrible.
Tait: Maybe it's Mr. Latrelle. He was like, "It's unreal what goes on, man." I was hearing it and like, "What a shame that is," not only for the little kid that's a dominant little bastard that's going to do great.
Greg: Right.
Tait: Also for the little kid that sucks or as mediocre or whatever. Whatever he is outrunning because he never learns that he's awesome at the violin.
Greg: Right.
Tait: He never learns that he can really throw a fast pitch.
Greg: Right.
Tait: You know what I mean. You won't find your own greatness.
Greg: It's even worse than that. I think you don't learn how to lose. You have to learn how to lose.
Tait: Yes. Go ahead and turn 18 there are some losers out here.
Greg: Right. You have to learn how to lose, regroup and compete again. You have to learn how to be an optimist in the face of this relentless loop. You have to learn that. You're not going to learn that being told, "You win." Then when you actually lose in the real world, it's devastating.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: You don't know to regroup. You don't know how to play the next game. I love baseball players that win five games, lose one, and win another six. You have to learn how to lose. That is a part of being human. You can't win all the time in everything.
Tait: You know what, it goes back to the original thing I think of your words ring in my head of you just got to have fun. If you're not having fun, don't do it, kid.
Greg: Right.
Tait: It's like it is that, man.
Greg: Exactly.
Tait: That is is the winning and the losing; it's not, "Here I am on this road."
Greg: It's a process. Are you saying this thing defines you?
Tait: Right.
Greg: This running race is all that you have. If it is, you're in trouble.
Tait: Yes. [Crosstalk] 4pm on Tuesday when it's over, that's it.
Greg: Right.
Tait: None of us lives in a vacuum.
Greg: When you're done with your career, what are you going to do? That obsession is fine but there is no excuse for not having that obsession push you in other things. You know what I mean? You're a great boxer; that's fine. When you're done, take up painting.
Tait: Right.
Greg: Even if you suck at it. Do something.
Tait: Do something that's uncomfortable. I'm a big fan of doing something that's scary and uncomfortable every day.
Greg: Get out of your comfort zone. I don't care.
Tait: I mean, when I stopped painting I started snowboarding. I was terrified of it for some silly reason.
Greg: Maybe you're going 100 miles an hour down the mountain?
Tait: I saw a guy standing there who break his arm, had a compound fracture and was standing and I was like, "That doesn't seem like the best idea for these both careers," then I started surfing a few years ago. I started paddle boarding. Then I started, you know what I mean, like the rock climbing.
Greg: Yes.
Tait: All that stuff and just get into it, man. This whole life is rich.
Greg: Exactly. If you're defined by one little thing you've missed the point of the sport the sport was trying to teach you.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: You can't win at everything all the time. If winning is everything you're missing the point. The process is everything. The process of winning takes care of itself. If you do the process right, that's what winning is.
Tait: I used to really regale in being like, "Oh, he's a competitor," and then, "Ooh, he's a fighter," and I was like and all that and these definitions of this one thing and I remember sitting with Eddie Brawer, Logan, Ari and some people coming often and I'm working for Joe at that time and I'm not really fighting. I'm feeling like I'm doing nothing, a bodyguard Ken I'm going around and somebody's like, I don't know if he's a wait or what, "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm a comic," and then he saw Eddie and he said, "I'm a musician," not even a jujitsu guy, right?
Greg: Yes.
Tait: He loves music so much. That's his thing.
Greg: I know. He's awesome.
Tait: Then Joe says, "Yes, I'm a comedian." I was like how fucking crazy is that? Then he came to me and I'm like, "I'm stumped," you know what I mean. It was really a regrouping time for me at that time but looking at now, one of the best answers that I've seen is my friend Danny, he's a cross fitter, Danny Leslie and he goes, he signs every blog he writes Penny Leslie, professional human.
Greg: Nice.
Tait: It's like, you know, it's really it, man. How do I just open up to the whole thing and not pigeon-hole myself into whatever this is?
Greg: Right, no, I think that's great. It's so important to be a healthy person. Listen, I'm not a perfect. I made more mistakes than anybody, constantly, but I think that you can still get wisdom and lessons.
Tait: Sure.
Greg: I'm not saying, "Be like me. I'm perfect," at all. I'm "Don't be affecting me at all." You can be as best as you can be within your limits. You know what I mean? We all have been [crosstalk]
Tait: [crosstalk] see that vehemently just with your last statement, "Don't be like Greg."
Greg: [laughing] Giant fluffy ears and a huge nose.
Tait: No, except for the ears, maybe. Maybe. The thing about trying and getting up everyday regardless if you're tired, regardless if there's a pay-up that's in a minute, regardless what's going to cost you, getting up every day and doing that same thing, there's such a merit in that kind of a discipline I think for the life.
Greg: It feels good. I like it.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: It's fun.
Tait: It's the plan.
Greg: It's the plan.
Tait: As long as we've got a plan.
Greg: That's it. I like that a lot. You see it even at old movies and stuff and then you reference it when you are in bad situations but it's really true. Everybody always has some semblance of a plan like even Bush Cassidy and the Sundance Kid when they were going to go out and shoot at the end. Well you know, they both knew what the plan was.
Tait: Yes.
Greg: They just go. There's kind of a, that's a coolness, "Okay, what's the plan? All right, let's do it."
Tait: Yes, we're committed. You know, not saying I want to but what's the plan?
Greg: There's the plan. Yes, it's an interesting phenomenon for sure.
Tait: I know you're busy, man. I could keep you all here all night but thanks a lot.
Greg: No worries.
Tait: Don't forget to talk soon.
Greg: Absolutely brother, man. Thanks for having me on.
Tait: Yes, yes. Much love.
[End Transcription]
Coach Greg Jackson found a spot to chat with me for the enjoyment of all you Bulletproof Badasses.
We span the topics from kids in MMA/military operators/Synchronicity theory/MMA adaptation of nearly all literary, artistic, scientific thought/family, etc.
As my coach, I couldn’t be more proud to have him on. As a genius, what a privilege to learn from and speak with on a whole different level than simply as an athlete.
The convo is really about a legend. A trailblazer in this beautiful sport. Coach is a man that worked through and created templates for success around problems that other coaches haven’t encountered yet… dual contenders in the same camps… psychological health of athletes.. after plans for fighters… YOU NAME IT.