Episode 68. Mark Sisson

Tait:- I was really interested in evolution, I went to a school were evolution was thought at a very scientific level, it was just starting to come on the scene, between that and the emergence of genetic science I thought there is something here...there is a way that we operate that’s based on evolution that we are missing, and I started to incorporate it into my training as a marathon and a triathlete, how did evolution allow my body to work itself to a point where I got really exhausted but then could go stronger, in other words if it doesn’t kill you it makes you stronger right.

Speaker 2: - hey all you sexy people, you now I just got some of the best mail, it’s like presents in the mail, the bummer...I don’t know if you guys did this, but a few years ago I got rid of all my CD's all my music like that because, who needs all that stuff around? and then then most of it on some computer somewhere, that probably doesn’t have a battery that works and I sure didn’t put it on an extended hard drive, so at any rate all my print CD's are gone, then I got an amazon prime, then I spent $800 but the mail came and how awesome, and how baller that Prince , I mean warner brothers stole his name, they said “we own your name and you can’t use it anymore, and so we are going to go ahead and change the name to this unpronounceable symbol and then I want to become what its formally known as”, and then he rated all his masters I mean, you talk about extreme ownership, you talk about really being down for yours men, that dude he was a symbol of greatness and hope, it is amazing all of the mentors that we have, somebody asked me one time "who are the people that made the biggest difference in your life as far as mentor and growing up?" and some of the biggest differences besides the people closest to me were books or biographies that I had read about people and you look at people that .... I was thinking about standards, and I started thinking about taking a stand now most people in Prince's position would have just said...”well I guess you can’t do that, they are saying I can’t own my name so I will just soldier on with the deal that I’ve got and make the best of it" but not Prince men, he was the guy that there was no way he could see it that he wasn’t going to circumvent this obstacle, that’s why I like Ganesh, the remover of obstacles, because people are going to see things one way or another, they either see it that this is a thing there is no way they won’t get around they just have to figure out the puzzle or they might try a little bit ad push a little bit against the wall and go "anhh guess you just can't get over this wall" and I guess that is what this podcast is about, its primarily how to get over the wall, how do we get over it our own way, where do I put my own obstacles up to prevent me from my own greatness and reflecting about that and reflecting about standards is whether you take a stand, what do you value enough to take a stand?, what are you willing to die for? I feel like there is a lot of things you need to be willing to die for, in order to be maybe an honourable or useful or a person that is really about it, anyway I started to think about prince in that way and it is pretty God damn remarkable and then you take a lot of musicians , you think about NWA and the stand that they took for the freedom of speech, they were just some foul mouth kids, they didn’t think they were going to make a stand for the freedom of speech act but they did and it make a God damn difference. you know the biggest one, the most recent is Mohamed Ali, and Mohamed Ali's passing I think really quick through the nation, I think I at my age can’t really understand it as much as maybe somebody that is 60 can understand it, cause those were pivotal times, like the 60's and the 70's , when he was at he’s height, those were pivotal times for America , it was whole different kind of party back then, and the stand that Mohamed Ali, Malcolm X, Doctor Martin Luther king the stand that those guys were making were life and death and a lot of guys ... and I hope I didn’t offend any military friends when I put up a picture of honouring Mohamed Ali in the day, he had this tremendous quote about the Vietcong that never assaulted him or put him down or try to render him unequal to other men, and what huge thing that was, because the fact is he could have just gone along, easily not going to work not a big deal for him, he could have easily done that, during his time he would have probably been treated as a celebrity much I the way much like Elvis's time I suppose, I don’t really know about what Elvis's time was there, my point is that he allowed himself to be stripped off his title, the government took away he’s living now when you think about that took away his ability to make a living, took away his passport, he couldn’t travel to fight and he took a stand, he took a stand against the ministerial industrial complex and he really took a stand against what we should all be taking a stand against right now which is why are we fighting wars that are only in the best interest of corporations, and then allowing those corporations to be more powerful, to more take over more of our lives, and it’s clear they don’t have our best interest in mind, so about the pod cast at any rate I feel like I’ve just gone on and on and blabbed the topic a bit the pirate life pod cast is started in that vein and I’ve got to talk to some really fantastic people and one of the beautiful things is that I went to paleo fx and I got to meet a whole community of likeminded motivated people that are in this movement, that are in the movement and the conversation of healthy growth and nutrition and how to pirate your life back, and one of the main people that have affected my life, I saw him speak live on time is Mark Sission, and he is our guest on the podcasts today, you can find him at Mark daily apple, how wrote the primal blue print which is a life changing book and he is easily searchable I think criss cross has had him on his podcast he’s been all around, Rogan had him on his podcast and he is a beautiful articulation and representation of humanity and at an advanced age in life and he has seen a lot and he has lived through a lot and he is looking at the best ways to live to have the best most kick ass life for as long as he can, so he is also in that event he has made a whole line of condiments of nutritional dressings , with cannoli that are all sustainably sourced good for the body, healthy, they are very good to use on a catogenic diet, they will not spike your insulin, and he has a whole primal kitchen and they are going to make restaurants, thank goodness, and more and more of this movement is just getting more and more wide spread and I really see that Rob wolfen, Mark Sission at spear headed this in a lot of ways and they take a lot of grief am sure too, but I really applaud their efforts and I hope you search them up, follow them on snap chat probably but follow them on instagram and twitter and you can find the primal kitchen blue print, Mark Sisson is he’s name and you can see all the things that drop through and it opens up a whole new conversation for you, so thank you for paying attention through all that I would like to get some ads out of the way as well, and I will also like to get a little bit of what mark talks about, we go into TRT, we go into healthy fats, we go into the beginning of all this movement and he’s background and expertise in it and just what it’s like for a man of he’s age to keep operating at a fulfilled and sustained pace and he is an amazing dude. So look forward to that, all you in Texas check out concrete cow boy Dallas, and Houston, check out Cave man coffee, this podcast and all podcast are brought to you by cave man coffee, looking for some really big things will be coming up shortly, you can see us live we will be at Boston this weekend and we will be a reebok 1 this weekend ding some collaborator stuff with reebok apparel and the whole reebok brand and all of the cross fit games athletes will be out there so will be some great podcast coming out of that next week.

In addition to that you can find us at the cross fit games I believe we are cinched for doing that and we should be doing some really cool things up there so check us at cavemancoffee.com, cavemancoofeeco on instagram and twitter and find out all things caveman, some new apparels coming out too, should be live in the next couple of weeks so anyway that’s all happening [inaudible [00:10:20]] this little microbrew that a friend of mine does if you are into that check it out, we just mixed a great amber and white gold, so we did he white gold coffee bean and an amber beer and brewed that up with a few kegs of it and we would be open in a tap room coffee house in mercantile shop called the [inaudible[00:10:39] headquarters here in sanatafe new Mexico probably in the next 6 weeks or so and that will be the only place that beer is available for now but if you are in the area stop in and holler and you can find us on twitter and instagram just [inaudible ][00:10:54], thank you very much, I want to also thank all of my official audience and I think that’s it you little freaks, enjoy this the most inspirational guy, we only spoke for a short time 30,40, 45 minutes am not sure, he was gracious enough to spend time with us but please, seek out Mark Tombalow and tell him I sent you. God bless you all and I hope you enjoy the podcast, have a great day. [00:11:29] interlude [00:12:28]

Speaker 2: - Welcome guys and thanks for joining us, this is Pirate life radio and am Tad Fletcher and today am super excited we are here at Palo fx game for the final day and I’ve got the Mark Sisson founder of everything primal and the primal blue print one of the first kind of doctrines that I ascribe to and you know the term bio hackers has become so prevalent now and now I got to ask people am like " what kind of bio hacker are you are you the kind that wants to do nothing get a result maybe take a pill or are you kind that is like steadily trying to get after it kind of reached all the top levels in your life and now you are trying to dial it in more and for me what you have represented at first heard you had CFLA give a great lecture and between you and rob really in trying both of those diets and going 100% into it.... where do you want to go as an aging athlete and where do you want to go also as a human what’s your conversation? It changed from am going on a diet to I just have a different relationship with food and now I have different standards I guess?

Speaker 1 : - yea I agree a 100%, I think I have a different relationship with life now and it’s really about finding those moments as frequently as possible where I can get the most amount of fulfilment, enjoyment, pleasure, contentment, satisfaction as possible on a day to day basis, on a minute to minute basis, and to the extent that food has an effect on that.... look people sometime go "well palio and primal isn’t that a very restricted diet" they go No no no men there are some things I chose not to eat but there are so many awesome foods that I choose to eat and by the way I love to eat and further by the way I will not put anything into my mouth that doesn’t taste freaking awesome

Speaker 2 : - you are right, if it’s not delicious am not playing with it, I have a fiend and he has type II diabetes he got it when he was 58 or something and I said "what if I told you that I could find you a way to eat hat tastes delicious and it would take away your need for insulin" he says "well, you know I don’t do drugs and I don’t drink it’s the last kind of expression I have for my comfort" and am like " I love every meal I eat bro, like am kind of a glutton, and I eat in a way that serves my body" and what I also never... Keith and I talked about and I really thought that it would affect my mood I had no idea until 5-10 years ago that had a conversation with what my wellbeing as far as what my mental process and my emotional balance was throughout the day

Speaker 1: - I mean there is a whole realm of possibilities for people who are taking prescription meds for depression or anxiety or any kind of mood disorder, and am not suggesting that all of them would be eliminating there meds but certainly a tremendous amount of them would probably be well served by eating the way you and I choose to eat and its again clarity of thought, the consistency of energy throughout the day, so you don’t have the blood sugar issues that drive the brain into panic mode, all these things, I man one of the great benefits of eating this way is when you become fat adapted, when you become keto and fat adapted which happens as a matter of just eliminating sugar and carbs and stuff from your diet…

Speaker 2: - and within a couple of days.

Speaker 1 : - within a couple of days, and when that adaptation happens and you now understand that you are now burning fat that is in your body, no offence to anyone I the audience, but you've got fat in your body that you could burn I don’t care who you are, once you are able to tap into those energy stores you don’t need to eat to eat 3 square meals a day, if you do great, if you choose to great, but you don’t need to and so you are not driven by hunger all the time, you know as we call these sugar burners who have not become fat adapted in most of the world I think it’s just relying on carbohydrate and sugar you get to this point where our blood sugar goes up and then it drops and then you are hungry again and it’s just this constant battle of ...

Speaker 2: - you are a slave to food

Speaker 1: - you are a slave to food, you are a slave to your appetite so the most empowering thing about the primal blue print is this release from attachment to appetite and hunger. You know you eat enough and then you push the food away and then you go "hey! Am not really hungry for the next bite, I know there’s food available if I want it, but for right now I am totally satisfied"

Speaker 2 : - the thing I love the most about it also is that people say well how do you get through this drilling work out, it’s not even part of my conversation, I don’t feel ravenous afterwards, I used to get a little hypoglycaemic in the midst of the workout, and we would have to drink gator ale we drink this thing called Durox, that became a thing, but now I can do a couple of workouts and it doesn’t even bother me to eat or not eat if am fat adapted, when am in that state am good.

Speaker 1: - I mean I go into ... I wake up in the morning I get a cup of coffee, caveman coffee by the way, and I have... to confess I put a little bit of sugar in it, and some cream and am good to go until 1oclock

Speaker 2: - do you care what kind of sugar that you use?

Speaker 1: - i don’t care; it’s so little it’s so insignificant

Speaker 2: - turbinato, cane, it don’t matter?

Speaker 1: - no it doesn’t matter to me

Speaker 2: - what do you think about this stuff about coconut sugar, because I have been seeing that a lot

Speaker 1: - its fine, its fine.

Speaker 2: - and people...but as far as the glycaemic index is that a similar response to the inulin or no?

Speaker 1: - I think that no, I think there is no difference really at that point and really it becomes a matter of quality not quantity

Speaker 2: - how many carbs do you allow yourself to a day

Speaker 1: - I think a 120

Speaker 2: - yea I go about a 100

Speaker 1: - yea and it’s all from vegetables and then that 1 teaspoon of sugar

Speaker 2: - that’s what I always look at I go ok this will be my thing today then, and then I will....

Speaker 1 : - but the point is so I wake up and I have a coffee and am good to go till about 1 o’clock, which includes breaking about 9:30 to 10 and going to the gym, doing a workout, sometimes it’s an easy one, sometimes it’s a hard one, if it’s a hard one...you know I slug through it, but I don’t feel like I have to have a pre work out meal, am definitely not compelled to have a post work out meal, its interesting when you get to that phase where you start burning fat, you finish a hard workout and hunger is the last thing on your mind.

Speaker 2: - right, it’s true

Speaker 1: - you know to hunger normally it creeps up about 12:30 – 1

Speaker 2: - you know it’s amazing about hunger too, you are in a state of dissatisfaction, when you say that I was going to presently just mention it but I feel so sated at the end of a workout like that, and am not longing for you know like a need food, like you just get to have these pleasant moments that you can enjoy as opposed to chasing the next thing in a way

Speaker 1: - that's exactly right, that is exactly right, I mean if you are not hungry then really why do you need to eat?

Speaker 2 : - right, and there used to be this thing where, well you got to get in so many .75 grams of protein and am like that is some hooie why did I believe in all those magazines I read, like that just... is not as if am big and anything and I don’t eat enough protein

Speaker 1 : - well you know there a couple of schools of thoughts, and like I say there are no right or wrong answers here there are just choices am not going to judge your choice, but if you are interested in finding out more about the science am going to help you make some choices for you that might work well, so one of the choices in the old days was you do a post workout meal, you've got this theoretical window of opportunity where you re-synthesis glycogen for 4minutes after workout hence the reloading drinks and gels and things that people take after workout for a post work out meal

Speaker 3: - the window, the window is closing I got to get it

Speaker 1 : - yea, but what happens... that’s great, that’s really good by the way if you are going to do a glycogen and workout the next day, dude I don’t like to work out hard every day, I like to work out the least amount to get the most amount of benefits

Speaker 2: - what’s hard for you? I mean when I say that, cause when I think about a hard workout for me, I think about the most arduous if we are going to go into 20 or 30 minutes I don’t do that, but maybe once every couple of weeks, even once a month now and what I mean is a xx type of thing I work out for longer than that, but if am going to go for that type of thing its 12 minutes or something or 8 minutes I mean...

Speaker 1: - that’s what am talking about, in terms of that work out if you are going to do it the next day then it makes sense to re-synthesis glycogen as quickly as possible, but then again who the hell has the energy and the time, get a life, if your goal is to be in the gym, crushing yourself everyday God bless you and have a blast but am more into what’s the least amount of pain suffering sacrifice and discipline that I can manage and get the most amount of benefits right? So anyway so that glycogen window that's the reason for the whole post workout meal and it was particularly apropos if you are an endurance athlete and you had to go out and do this every single day? The other way to look at this is after a workout is when your body is pulsing that testosterone and growth hormone, and that’s what I want for my workout; the difference is if I take a high carbohydrate meal after a workout that blunts a testosterone and growth hormone experience.

Speaker 2: - that changed my life when you said that, I’ve adopted that since then and I’ve said it to people that this may work but if we have been doing that window thing for a long time how about try this cause the other thing that food does besides nourishing the muscle is it robs you of any kind of hormonal spurt that you are going to get that you are doing the compound exercises for

Speaker 3: - exactly, wouldn’t that like drop the amino acids right after your workout or something like that?

Speaker 1: - you know its fine if you want to do some branch chain amino or something that’s good, you know too much of the way protein isolates or something that’s got a full complement of amino acids that’s going to raise insulin as well and that’s going to give you the same effect, so we have to go back to this suspension of disbelief that we have, our whole life we were all sitting around the table, we are old enough to remember back in the 70's and 80's when the mantra was do not go hungry cause you would cannibalise muscle tissue and all of that was based on a paradigm that meant you were burning sugar all the time, and it really wasn’t into the fat burning paradigm, now that you have become a fat burner all this stuff changes and your body can access stored fat when you don’t eat and after you have worked out then the brain is no longer going "oh my God, we are going to die, we better shoot some cortisone out, to create more sugar, to tear down muscle tissue to send those aminos to the liver to make more sugar to fill the muscles " it’s just bizzar

Speaker 2 : - that’s a different conversation

Speaker 1 : - yet that was the paradigm for decades and decades, it’s all changed now with fat adaptation, with fat adaptation you don’t need to have that post workout meal, you will not cannibalise muscle tissue, again the worst that would happen is you would have run through all of your glycogen reserves which is actually a good thing because you want that variability, you want to have squeeze all of your glycogen out and let it refill normally, that maintains insulin sensitivity right, that’s one of the ways we maintain insulin sensitivity, is by heavy lifting absolutely, so think of the sugar gong out of the muscles and then being driven back into the muscles because insulin is doing its job so well

Speaker 3: - i love that, so that might add to your high intensity workout, now are you going to have more carbohydrates with your meal that night?

Speaker 1: - you know if I don’t plan on going hard the next day, I have the faith that my glycogen reserves are going to refill on their own

Speaker 2: - believe your body, just trust your body

Speaker 1: - they'll do it , it just won’t happen overnight it might take two or three days but I don’t plan on going hard for a couple of days, look am 63 men am going to hurt for a day after that hard workout

Speaker 2: - you know they call you the silver fox, do you know that? For those that don’t know just go ahead and Google, cause this is a handsome....

Speaker 3: - I turn and blush right now when I talk to people all the time, 63 my dad’s 60 something I don’t know, but anyway we are talking about work out stuffs ok let me Google this picture right here…

Speaker 4: - I actually use your picture for some other high celebrity clients that I work with then am like you want to talk about not being able to get there...

Speaker 2: - oh really you are 52 look at this guy

Speaker 3: - show me a marathon runner that you look up to, and I will show you that guy....

Speaker 2: - what do you think is hormone response when we talk about that, and now also here and big in this conversation is TRT and now steroids are becoming a big discussion in sport Keith and I laugh for sure and there is a lot of people with varying views and am wondering what your views are you know...

Speaker 1: - first of all my view is that we should use science to benefit our lives to whatever extent we can, now sometimes science works in our favour and sometimes it may not be appropriate now I was involved in the anti-doping movement with the IOC for 15 years, I drafted the anti-doping rules for the sports of triathlon and I administered those rules for 12 years I heard every positive test that ever occurred in the sports of triathlon, I was so immersed in performance enhancing drugs, now it was ironic to me that a lot of these testosterones... it was ironic in some sense that it was banned because a lot of these sports that I was involved with cycling, running, triathlon are so depleting of testosterones that you are literarily killing the guy who is training

Speaker 3: - Yes

Speaker 1: - so in some cases to xxx the very medicines that would give any other poor souls who showed up in the emergency room saying I feel like crap cause I over trained or I over worked and think nothing of prescribing it cause now you are denying them...so that’s a whole different topic, but having said that in terms of these anabolic steroids I got a real problem with those, ok, the THG that was the whole balco thing....

Speaker 2: - that’s the stuff they call the clear

Speaker 1: - you know that was an attempt to get around the testing laws and it cost some people a world of hurt, not just legally but physically, right, but on the other hand I’ve been doing TRT myself, I’ve been doing testosterone replacement for the last 2 years, I do a small amount, I’ve got an anti-aging Doc, I’ve looked at all the research, so am going to take advantage of the science to the extent that I see it.

Speaker 3: - are you doing a cream?

Speaker 1: - no am doing an injection.

Speaker 3: - oh cool, cool, cool.

Speaker 2: - and now what’s a small amount and how often do you check blood levels then? And all that, do you live that to the discretion of your doctor?

Speaker 1: - yea I live it to the discretion of my doctor, I check my blood levels twice a year, they are fine, my haematic rate is normal you know am like its rally about free testosterones in this case.

Speaker 2 : - what do you think if I just talking about doctor drew shawl with Adam crew and am like he would to do it but am not sure the science is there, am like that there’s a ton, and the science is that you are dying, and that this stuff goes down and if you can have it go up it will feel better till you die , and he says "well I had prostate cancer 5 years ago and he says I don’t want to aggravate it I want to get clear that do you know anything between... because that’s the only down side that I’ve ever really seen that has any plausible…

Speaker 1: - what’s interesting is there’s a research that men who have low testosterone have a higher incidence of prostate cancer, than a normal population, but to tell you a point, I would not do growth hormone, cause am afraid of growth hormone, for a lot of reasons, unless I was clinically deficient in it and I tried everything else and I had issues with libido and weight gain and skin and energy and all of the other things, and you can test that or it can be prescribed by certain anti-aging docs so am not advocating for or against but am saying in my case, I like to.... you know you can call me a bio hacker am not sure I like that...

Speaker 2: - I don’t call you a bio hacker, I feel like that’s a weird thing, that’s the thing it is, to me it’s like fitness modelling, so you are fit , you are on instagram stop it, I was saying there are 2 bio hackers that are here there is the kid that are actually high operating humans that are trying to get little edges and get better in their life and then there’s those that are like "i like to do nothing and just take a pill and be awesome, how can I do that?" you know... I would never call you that...

Speaker 1 : - no forget it, I play ultimate freesbie once in a week with 20 something’s am going to be 63 in a month so dude I mean for me to keep up on a sprint to the end zone and defend a long ball pass you know I need to have all of the edge I can get, most of which come from my trainings so I spend time in the gym... my time in the gym is calculated to keep me healthy and to not get injured when am playing and the combination of the two is good so I limit the amount of time in the gym, I eat well, I take great care of myself otherwise so I don’t depend on TRT it’s just something I’ve been experimenting with, cause I am an experimenter in that regard, you know so far so good, and I’ve read the research and am certainly not compelled to discontinue.

Speaker 3: - can I ask you, could you mention free testosterones or are you doing anything in your diet or anything that will keep that testosterones from being...

Speaker 1 : - yea everything about a well-planned primal blue print or any diet you know its high and healthy facts which are protective of testosterone levels its conversely going to reduce any sort of estrogenic effects, I cut the sugars in the inflammation you know the inflammatory part so omega free fatty acids and all of the industrial seed oils, the sugars, I cut grains out you know for me grains is... the elimination of grains was life changing, and all those things to combined to give my body that opportunity, that terrain in which to manifest the strongest, healthiest, leanest old guy can possibly do

Speaker 2: - I think the only hard part when people talk about how hard the diet is, it come into planning and for thought you just have to be like to be saying like "am not going to have any grains" all you have to think "am going to bring some coconut butter with me along for the ride to compensate me”

Speaker 1: - you know when you start hard unless you plan, I tell people "don’t let yourself ever go hungry cause you will go off the rails" have some coconut butter around, have some nut butters have some beef jerky or whatever there is nothing like a poon full of coconut butter to sort of take the edge off and to get you to that next meal whatever that is or the next source of real food

Speaker 2: - it saved me, when I heard you speak at CFLA lace and I were there and that said "go ahead and have two table spoons of coconut butter and tell me about how hungry you are" and I was like "i will try that" and "oh my God " it was its life altering you know, you make it easy transition

Speaker 1: - we can call that a hack, I don’t know

Speaker 2: - give it a name

Speaker 1: - but it really works and but those are the little secrets, those are the little things that we do to make this transition painless, whereas otherwise we'd be some large struggling, suffering "oh I don’t get to ever eat another cinnamon, my life is over" no just find, like people say what do you want for dessert, "oh I will have another lamb chop please" right..

Speaker 2 : - exactly right, you know I ate all the antrays, lace would travel out for work as well and her kit to go is very well thought out and you have to be conscious about it…

Speaker 1: - you know am not so new about this life style, like on a bet I can go any restaurant in this town and find a meal that would serve me well

Speaker 2: - i mean I won’t if I don’t have to but...

Speaker 1: - no but you won’t get the pancakes, and the toast....

Speaker 2: - i would just go with the eggs and bacon and ...

Speaker 1 : - yea, we are in Austin right now where everybody has got guacamole, dude canning a soda and guacamole with a little bit of soured cream is awesome and yet so many people think because they are paleo I could never go to a Mexican restaurant cause it’s got tortes, and beans and rice…

Speaker 4: - its go so much meat, great meat, they usually marinate them in awesome sauces

Speaker 2: - the reason I can’t go there is because I will eat all the corn chips because I love tortilla chips and guacamole....

Speaker 1: - so that’s another thing, and don’t let yourself up for failure, right, so if that’s going to be an issue for you, stay away from those places for a while, once you get to where you are say "you know what damn it today am going to have some chips " and am going to enjoy the hell out of them, and am not going to have any for a couple of days.

Speaker 2: - or a plan, "well today am only going to have meat and cheeses throughout the day and then I will go ahead and I will have a popcorn tonight at the movie theatre because it’s got a 100 grams of carbohydrate in it...."

Speaker 1: - by the way we have this new bottle of avocado oil, and a lot of people are cooking their popcorn in avocado oil…

Speaker 2: - I have a friend he would save he’s bacon grease, and he would put it in a freezer and he would cook it in a pot and Oh my God yea, but I know you are cut for time, I want to talk about your products and also I have two questions, I want to go into your products and have people know where they can find them cause now am fucked up when I go to whole foods and I used to just go and get chicken salads or tuna salads and am like "oh there’s sugar in the God damned everything, how dare you and your canola oil" but yours is one of the only ones on the shelf that I think that has no sugar I don’t know if there is another one except...

Speaker 1 : - we've got a big issue with canola, and we are having a lot of discussions with all of this health food stores, who have a lot of products that have canola in them, so basically avocado oil is the healthiest among all the oils, it’s even there above coconut oils and its above extra virgin oils, so there’s a lot of research on it, the fatty acid profile is spectacular, so we said well how can we make foods using avocado oils, and the first food that we were able to make commercially that fit our specs was this avocado oil based meal , it’s the holy grail of condiments here, it’s what the palio community has been missing and craving, for the longest time you couldn’t make chicken salads, you couldn’t make tuna salads, you couldn’t make potato .... by the way because of this starch resistance thing gold potatoes are back on the menu, but you couldn’t find a potato salad, because you couldn’t find a mayonnaise unless you are willing to make it yourself, God bless you, so this avocado base thing came out and it is blowing up, number 1 bestselling mayonnaise on amazon for the last 6 months every day.

Speaker 2: - fantastic

Speaker 1: - we are on thrivemarket.com, I don’t know if your listeners go to thrive, we sell it on our own at primalblurprint.com but now we have lime flavoured mayonnaise, and it’s spectacular

Speaker 2: - and your dressings also that the other thing, so it’s a little mayo and you put the dressing n it, mix that with your tuna and Oh my God, and I just cut up an onion, throw it in thee and am great

Speaker 1: - so a whole new realm of opportunity and a new world of food is open to the palio community and the clean eating community because of this mayonnaise

Speaker 2: - what was the onset of your interest in this conversation, 20 years ago , 100 years ago when did you start thinking about...

Speaker 1: - about what the food? Of just...

Speaker 2: - about the food, about the way of life...

Speaker 1: - well the way of life , look I was a bio major in college, I was pre-med, I was really interested in evolution, I went to a school where evolution was thought at a very scientific level, it would just sort of come on the scene, between that and the emergence of genetic science I just thought there is something here, a way that we operate that’s based on evolution that we are missing, and I started to incorporate it into my training as a marathon and a triathlete, how did evolution allow for my body to work itself to the point where I got really exhausted but then could go stronger, in other words if it doesn’t kill you it makes you stronger right? so that was the basis for my performance interest, and I was always looking at foods and how I could enhance performance legally with foods and it sort of settled over the years and became this life way of ideal feeling sources and ideal ways to build muscles and burn fat and eventually about 15 years ago it kind of gelled and became this life way that is the primal blue print I saw that the diet was huge and I saw that how you choose to exercise dictates what your body looked like and am the best manifestation of that that I know, when I was marathon runner I weighed 138 pounds I weighed a 172 now I have the same body fat I did then, I haven’t run a mile for fourteen years, I just do sprints and weights and if I do hikes I hike I do some aerobic stuff if I ride a bike a little bit but am not cannibalising my body single every day, am not choosing to direct the genes to express themselves as a lean skinny marathoner am choosing my genes reinvent myself as a powerful lean sprinter.

Speaker 3: - what’s cool about too is the idea that right now, if for some reason if you had to go run a marathon, you would be able to go run a marathon, you would probably be sore afterwards...

Speaker 1 : - yea and I wouldn’t win the damn thing, but I know what it’s like and I can complete it, and my training is like when you look at these Congo bushmen you know these African tribes ad you watch a video of them hunting the beast on the plains they are running for five hours in the hot desert sun, dude they don’t train for that, that’s how they live, they live their live on a daily basis cross training, right they are lifting heavy things, ...

Speaker 2: - like I could eat the bush here or am going to run down an animal until he over heats till the point where he drops, am going to run you to exhaustion and then am going to kill and eat you. That’s just savage, that’s bad ass, it doesn’t get more primal than that,

Speaker 3: - that guy is probably not killing himself running though, his heart rate is probably not even up to 150 for the run out time, his keeping it really slow and steady and...

Speaker : - so they have an intuitive governor on their engine that says, look in the event that we don’t catch this beast, we are screwed, so A if we catch him or B if we don’t catch him we still have to survive to the next opportunity, back to our previous discussion, we evolve energy mechanisms to allow us to tap into fat stores in the event that we don’t catch the beast and live on those fat stores for days at a time and use ketones to maintain our mood and your energy levels and feel our brains in a positive way so that we can have another go at it.

Speaker 3: - it’s crazy to think that we've let our bodies get lazy and...

Speaker 2: - we seek comfort instead of...

Speaker 3: - we have this energy source that are made to tap into but we are not doing it we are not adapted to do that its crazy it went that we’ve went that way.

Speaker 2: - we don’t even think it possible the Bushmen I bet they catch more than they don’t catch, because they already know like this is going to happen this is over heat

Speaker 1: - this is going to happen in 4 hours or 6 hours so yea,

Speaker 2: - and am already in it, am not going to be able to run like this 6 hours from now so I better just keep after it and they probably run with a smile knowing that they are going to have a result. you mentioned ketones because I only just knew what ketones, I don’t know any but Keith gave me some, but I’ve been messing with cathogenic stuff for 4 or 5 years and I was like "what is all this?" and I’ve got a lot of friends they get into stuff newly and they are like here is the thing like Rogan got into cathogenic diet recently and now his all about ketones and all that kind of stuff, am like why do you need this... it takes me two days to get keto adapted, like I don’t understand what this is for , is this another "bio hack " so that you can cheat the system I mean they go you eat all the French fries then I will just eat these ketones and I will be fine , do they have a vale and what is that value’

Speaker 1: - yes they have a value and it is how the world works, how literarily how can I have my cake and eat it too, so there’s utilities to these ketone Epsom’s and ketone salts , I tried them a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 2: - it tastes great.

Speaker 1: - that’s the biggest issues with these, you have to put some nasty stuff in then to make them great otherwise you would hurl.

Speaker 2: - I drink this stuff that tastes horrible and Keith is like text me when you.... And he didn’t tell me, he didn’t prepare me.

Speaker 1 : - so the point is that I went into the game fast, I played for 2 hours under the hot sun, energy levels, I think there’s something there, I did all the work to where these become a supplemental form of ketones, if you are just going to take…and have some French toast for breakfast and drink a ketone package you are not going to build the metabolic machinery that can burn those ketones, that’s what we are really talking about, we are talking about creating a need within the body to use that fuel, and that’s where the vitamin fasting comes in, that’s where the reduction of carbohydrate comes in to force your body to become good at burning fat and then to make ketones and then to build the mitochondria machinery to burn the ketones, if you don’t have that machinery... look people who are sugar burners who go to bed one night and then don’t eat, they might go on a fast until like dinner the next day, their breath smalls pretty bad, they are in ketosis, they are sugar burners, they are not fat but they’re in ketosis because that what he body does, but they haven’t built the metabolic machinery to burn the ketones so they expel it in the breath and urine the sweat and they are not using the actual fuel that their body it building, so that the danger of I think of average person that hasn’t really done the work to become fat adapted is using these ketone products, I don’t think that it is appropriate probably not even possible or beneficial to just drink a potion and try to think that ...

Speaker 2: - you really need to stay true to the game, and I think that also if you are using ketones I the event that you are thinking that there is a shot cut you are doing yourself a bad service because the emotional stability, all these other things that are beneficial in DNA ketosis I don’t think are available to you in the same way

Speaker 1 : - the science is just starting to come down the pipeline now so if there is a keto guy out there that says "you know mark you are totally wrong" then send me some research and am open to it

Speaker 2: - well that’s what I love about you and rob both you are so open to whatever like, we are not trying to make this crazy let’s just go ahead and have a good time and live a better life, that’s what we are trying to do here, and if love the way you are living awesome I don’t care if you eat primal or not. Again tell people were they can find you and then we'll get you out of here.

Speaker 3: - I was going to say thank you men like we are with Keith here and we got to research a lot of stuff and we were going down this path of how to eat primal there’s a lot of things out there and my go to thing at home when am on the internet is I will Google canola oil and start typing in marks and maybe I will get to the [inaudible [00:44:34] all the research you have on your website, it’s so...

Speaker 2 : - and I also want to say thank you , because without you for sure, I feel really strongly about honouring my mentors and people that we have helped along the road and you are one of those guys you are fundamental in forming my outlook, when I thought I knew something about something and then here’s a whole new mind blown, here how to open your life in a different way, and I don’t think I would be sitting here with cave man coffee the three of us , if you and rob hadn’t open our lives, our hearts, our minds and our expressions in this way and I really appreciate you men.

Speaker 1 : - likewise I appreciate you brother, and I dig what you are doing, keep up the great work and I love seeing people that are embodying the lifestyle in a commerce application, and changing the world in what you do.

Speaker 2: - i think that’s what it is you've got to have commerce to be able to spread the world and advertise, our goal is we never wanted a business, we wanted to empower people round us, and this just became the expression of that, and is not really even about coffee that way...

Speaker 1: - totally, coffee is a metaphor for life

Speaker 2: - thank you so much dude

Speaker 4: - or wait where can we find your internet

Speaker 2: - where can we find you

Speaker 1: - marksdailyapple.com is a blog, primalblueprint.com is our ecommerce site where you can buy the mayonnaise the books, we have a primal health coach programme we just launched

Speaker 2: - and I can send queries to the website or something like that. There is a link, and there is a forum...Mark on iTunes.....